Pro Wrestling Forever Ep. 06

Jun 3

Professional wrestling history is filled with moments that changed everything, but few are as fascinating as the persistent rumors that Ric Flair could have joined WWF in 1988. In the debut edition of Into the Wrestleverse, Professor Degree and Blade Daily examine what might have happened if "The Nature Boy" had made the jump before Ted Turner's purchase of Jim Crockett Promotions later that year. Would Turner have still invested in wrestling without Flair as the centerpiece? Would WCW have ever emerged as a national powerhouse? And what would become of stars like Sting, Lex Luger, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, and the Four Horsemen if the industry's most recognizable champion had headed north?

The conversation follows the ripple effects across the entire wrestling landscape, from Hulk Hogan's WWF and WrestleMania to the eventual Monday Night Wars and beyond. Along the way, Degree and Daily blend wrestling history, fantasy booking, nostalgia, and analysis to build a believable alternate timeline where one move changes decades of professional wrestling. Whether you're a fan of classic wrestling, vintage territories, wrestling trivia, or simply enjoy debating the biggest "what if?" scenarios in the industry's history, this first trip Into the Wrestleverse offers plenty to discuss and even more to imagine.

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Hello, wrestling fans.
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I'm your host, the Toast of the Third Coast, Professor Degree.
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With me as always, the host of our sister show, your second favorite podcast, Sit Down,
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Shut Up, Mark Out, I, Blade, Daily.
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This is Pro Wrestling Forever.
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Blade, how you doing today?
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It's my first favorite podcast.
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But I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to them.
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It's their second favorite podcast.
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There's one person who would think it's better.
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You, hmm?
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There's one. Yeah, there's one.
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Your mom doesn't count.
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So today, today's episode takes place at the Crossroads,
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where quantum physics meet Jim Crockett promotions.
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Today's episode of Pro Wrestling Forever is the first in a series
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titled Into the Wrestleverse.
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Verse, verse, verse.
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I was thinking you would do that in post.
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So now.
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Let me give you the setup.
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August 29th, 1988, the very first Summer Slam was held.
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Main event featured Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage,
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the Mega Powers versus the Mega Bucks, Ted DiBiase and Andre the Giant.
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Special guest referee was none other than Jesse the Body Ventura.
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So this is the first Summer Slam.
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It's a follow up to WrestleMania four,
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which was held the previous March and featured a one night
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tournament for the vacated WWF Championship,
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in which Randy Savage defeated Ted DiBiase in the finals.
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The title had been held up due to some shenanigans.
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I'll allow you to peruse the interwebs and find that out on your own.
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But here's the crux of the biscuit.
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There's been rumors for years which were eventually confirmed
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by various people in the wrestling industry that Vince McMahon
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had made a play for Ric Flair.
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He wanted Flair to show up
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at Summer Slam 88 to leave the NWA,
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where he had been the champion for a number of years.
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We think this event, if it would have happened, would have had.
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I don't know, seismic universe shaping repercussions.
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So we're going to get into that.
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We're going to take some questions from you
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and we're just going to kind of discuss and do some fantasy booking.
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And, like, basically just make a bunch of shit up
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like a couple of fucking fanboys.
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Blake? Yeah, no.
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Well said.
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We are going to be talking about what I believe would have been
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a cataclysmic event in the world of pro wrestling,
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because the more we pulled this apart, the more we realized
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how much it would affect literally everyone else.
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We should also mention that the sources for this are Ric Flair
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and Bruce Prichard, two guys with a pretty bad
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command of the truth.
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So Ric Flair had said that.
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So basically what the reason Flair was available
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was that Jim Crockett promotions wasn't paying him on time.
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They weren't paying anyone on time.
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Everyone's contract had been voided, essentially,
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because they'd all been breached because they weren't being paid on time.
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However, unlike ECW, they still were being paid.
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So Flair was free to negotiate with whoever he wanted.
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Vince McMahon understood this and tried to reach out to Rick.
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There was a little back and forth.
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And what Flair said was.
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He stayed with what became WCW
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because he understood that Jim Crockett had promised Ted Turner
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that Ric Flair was going to be part of the deal,
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and he felt an obligation to stay.
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I don't know how true any of that is, but the rumor
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is that for a long time, I've heard that Ric Flair,
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Vince wanted Ric Flair to show up on the Brother Love Show
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as a special guest at SummerSlam 88.
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Wow. Yeah.
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So and I think with the recent death of Ted Turner
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and a lot of the discussions surrounding him, again,
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that kind of puts a little more a little more weight on this.
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It kind of gives you a little more perspective, I guess.
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And the role that Ted Turner really played in professional wrestling,
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I don't think it's
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I don't think it's outlandish to say that if he was not involved,
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pro wrestling would be hugely different.
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We're going to kind of get into this now.
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So what do you want to get into?
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You want to get into SummerSlam first?
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Or do you want to get into the state of the you kind of gave us
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the state of the NWA?
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Well, well, actually,
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so you have the state of WWF first, right, which is
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Savage is the champion.
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Hogan is off filming No Holds Barred. Right.
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He's still headlining every major pay per view.
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There's only four at the time, so it's easier to do.
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Actually, there's four.
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This is yeah, there's three.
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This is there's three because the Royal Rumble isn't a pay per view yet.
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So Hogan is still really
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Savage is keeping this belt warm for Hogan. Right.
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But there's really only one main guy in WWF at this time,
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and it's Hulk Hogan and Macho Man, Rady Savage.
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Honestly, the house business holds up really well while he's champion.
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A lot of people are very impressed with how he does his world champion
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because the Macho Man was fucking awesome.
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And that's this.
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This is a trend you see all the way until today in the WWF or WWE.
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It's this is the guy on top.
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And then this is the guy that everybody actually wants to be on top.
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But he's not going to be on top because this is the guy on top.
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I can't speak for all the fans,
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but I can tell you that in 1988, when I was a little kid riding the bus,
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all the older kids loved Randy Savage and they were already done with Hulk Hogan.
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So whether it be John Cena and CM Punk
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or whether it be Roman Reigns and Bryan Danielson
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just keeps saying or Roman Reigns and I don't know, name
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a lot of people.
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It was, you know, just a thing that goes on.
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It's how Hulk Hogan has been templated by Vince McMahon
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over and over to varying degrees of success.
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I would say maybe the best template is like John Cena.
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For sure. The worst template was pre
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pre heel turn Roman Reigns.
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Yeah, just a guy not meant to be that, you know, or like,
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might be the other runner up for that. Yeah.
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So, yeah, so we have that's kind of the situation in the WWF,
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but we also have in Jim Crockett Promotions.
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Rick Flair is arguably the same guy.
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He is the top guy without a doubt.
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He's barely a heel because the crowd cheers him constantly.
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All right. He is the he is the fucking man.
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And before Rick Flair was a fucking pathetic shell
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of a human being threatening to sue his own son publicly
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and passing out in the streets of Florida.
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So much so that there's a subreddit dedicated to people
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sharing their experiences of encountering this.
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He was one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.
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That was the man.
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That's an immutable fact.
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OK, I don't like Richard Fleer.
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Rick Flair was the fucking man.
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And no matter who won the belt from him,
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they were just keeping it warm for him to.
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But he lost it a little more than Hogan did.
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So which was to say that Hogan did not lose it
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for like five years straight. Right.
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This is the first I mean, Savage picking the belt up.
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He's the next guy after Hogan.
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It goes four years after Hogan won it first.
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Yeah, is Randy Savage.
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So but Flair has a couple title reigns
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the last like two or three years.
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And that's just and that's just WWF's way of doing business.
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Pedro Morales did the same thing.
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Bruno San Martino is the same thing.
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Bob Backlund, those guys, they just held the belt for four or five years.
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That was just the way it was back then. Right.
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So that's not, you know, and it also contrasts there.
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The booking difference between Crockett and and WWF,
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which is Crockett booked for heat and Vince booked for the big baby faces.
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You know, he booked to bring to make to have you leave feeling good.
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Whereas Crockett booked to have you fucking pissed
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and want to see that guy get his ass kicked. Right.
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You're paying money to show up to watch that guy get his ass beat next month.
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Yeah. So in the 80s, Flair loses the title to Harley Race.
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He wins it back at the first arcade.
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He loses it to Dusty Rhodes, wins it back three days later.
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He loses it to Kerry Von Erich.
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He wins it back two weeks later.
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And finally, fucking the greatest champion of the 80s,
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besides Flair Ron Garvin, he beats him.
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Ron Garvin never defends the title once while he's champion,
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gets a special exception from the NWA not to defend it,
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then loses it in a cage match to Flair at Starcade 87.
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Then Flair loses it to Ricky Steamboat for two months after that
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and wins it back.
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Meanwhile, Hogan held the belt for five years.
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Yeah. Hogan is the champion the entire that entire time.
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So anyway, here we are.
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Do you want to do want to look at the chat or do you want to go straight in?
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Yeah, let's jump into the chat before we go deep into the wrestlers.
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Well, here's Antoine makes you already think if one of the greatest
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80s feuds in 89 had never happened.
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Well, Antoine, that's actually what we're going to be talking about,
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but we're going to get there.
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Skewered Universe asks, am I the only one that hated Brother Love?
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You are not the only one.
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You were supposed to hate Brother Love.
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I mean, he was he he's actually hilarious parody of televised
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televangelism, in my opinion.
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But yeah, I was supposed to hate him.
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I hated him.
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I didn't I mean, I even I got that as a kid,
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but I still just thought he was fucking irritating.
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What's interesting is now I appreciate Brother Love,
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but goddamn Bruce Prichard, like Bruce Prichard.
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I can't stand that, dude.
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Yeah, I cannot stand him.
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Bleary Lines says it's kind of a miracle that Flair turned out how he did,
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mostly since at least from a purely wrestling perspective,
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Flair was pretty honorable in wrestling.
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I guess I don't really know that much about him, but that sounds right.
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I mean, yeah, if he said he was going to be there, he was there.
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Right. I mean, he knew how to maintain his position
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and play politics like everybody, but that's just wrestling.
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You know, yeah.
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So but yeah, I mean, I mean, that's the thing.
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Yeah, he was pretty much staying with Crockett.
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I don't know.
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Maybe not as a favor, but like,
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you know, it was the right thing to do.
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It was a handshake deal.
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Are we putting up that one or no?
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Yeah, Bruce can suck a fat infected one from a skewered.
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Yeah, I agree.
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And then Book says, I have no idea what we are talking about.
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Looks like it's going to get even more confusing.
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Well, here's the thing.
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Books, we're making an offer to you live on the air.
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We want you to come on the show next week with us and review
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SummerSlam 88, the real one that actually happened.
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We want you to come watch that show with us because you've never seen it.
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You'll have no idea who any of these people are.
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And we want your impressions of who they are.
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And we want your impression of Randy Savage.
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Yes, we do.
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So, Books, hopefully you'll join us next week.
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So back to the show.
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SummerSlam 88.
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So, OK, so let's say he shows up. Yep.
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He shows up on Brother Love.
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And then typical WWF at the time is to do a bunch of vignettes,
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whether it's Dusty Rhodes delivering pizza or Vader bouncing on a trampoline.
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That's kind of like the standard thing.
234
00:11:56.790 --> 00:11:59.150
You know what the fuck I'm talking about?
235
00:12:00.010 --> 00:12:01.990
So they probably would have done that.
236
00:12:02.110 --> 00:12:04.130
You probably would have seen him
237
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doing some lifestyles of the rich and famous shit, I'm guessing.
238
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Which begs a bigger question.
239
00:12:11.290 --> 00:12:14.830
What happens to Ted DiBiase at that point?
240
00:12:14.830 --> 00:12:16.030
Get into that in a minute.
241
00:12:16.430 --> 00:12:17.470
Unless you want to get into it now.
242
00:12:18.210 --> 00:12:19.790
This is the butterfly effect.
243
00:12:20.230 --> 00:12:23.710
And boy, it is big because Ted DiBiase.
244
00:12:24.690 --> 00:12:27.670
OK, so they say that a parent, I think Pritchard actually said
245
00:12:27.670 --> 00:12:30.830
that the million dollar man is the gimmick Vince McMahon would be
246
00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:32.230
if he could be a pro wrestler.
247
00:12:32.230 --> 00:12:34.750
That's why I told DiBiase to sell it to him to sell it to him.
248
00:12:34.830 --> 00:12:37.550
Right. But DiBiase, at least, you know,
249
00:12:38.070 --> 00:12:41.850
is drawing from the same well that Flair would be drawing from.
250
00:12:41.890 --> 00:12:44.170
The rich guy, the aristocrat, the asshole
251
00:12:45.050 --> 00:12:47.050
took it down a different path than Flair did.
252
00:12:47.250 --> 00:12:50.790
But do you need Ted DiBiase when you have Ric Flair?
253
00:12:51.330 --> 00:12:54.490
Because when Flair shows up, when does Flair actually show up in the WWF?
254
00:12:54.690 --> 00:12:55.310
Ninety one.
255
00:12:56.050 --> 00:13:00.230
And DiBiase just kind of gets shuffled off into the background,
256
00:13:00.530 --> 00:13:03.370
which he kind of was already fading away.
257
00:13:03.650 --> 00:13:04.650
But it was already over.
258
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I mean, you know, it ran the usual course that anybody
259
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in that top heel position had at the time.
260
00:13:11.550 --> 00:13:12.850
You don't stick around for too long.
261
00:13:12.950 --> 00:13:16.130
So let's say they do this. They're running vignettes.
262
00:13:18.610 --> 00:13:21.830
It's worth noting that in real life, in this timeline,
263
00:13:22.550 --> 00:13:24.950
in October, which is just two months later,
264
00:13:25.410 --> 00:13:30.010
Aaron Anderson and Tully Blanchard show up in the WWF as a team.
265
00:13:30.090 --> 00:13:32.190
This really happened in real life.
266
00:13:32.410 --> 00:13:33.630
What's the reason why?
267
00:13:34.190 --> 00:13:37.570
Because they were being vastly underpaid
268
00:13:37.570 --> 00:13:40.630
and they were pissed off because Crockett
269
00:13:41.970 --> 00:13:44.230
wasn't willing to do anything to keep them, really.
270
00:13:44.250 --> 00:13:46.910
And they were being paid less than Jim Cornett.
271
00:13:48.110 --> 00:13:50.330
Fuck that. So they show up in the WWF.
272
00:13:50.510 --> 00:13:53.530
They're managed in real life by Bobby the Brain Heenan.
273
00:13:53.770 --> 00:13:58.110
So it only takes a little bit of effort to assume
274
00:13:58.110 --> 00:14:00.890
that Bobby Heenan would have been managing Ric Flair,
275
00:14:00.890 --> 00:14:03.510
Aaron Anderson and Tully Blanchard,
276
00:14:03.770 --> 00:14:07.990
who are two thirds of the four horsemen. So.
277
00:14:08.390 --> 00:14:13.030
So I have I have I have a way you can get to Flair.
278
00:14:14.110 --> 00:14:16.870
You know, kind of his quest, all right.
279
00:14:17.630 --> 00:14:20.810
My theory is Ric Flair shows up with Bobby Heenan.
280
00:14:21.110 --> 00:14:24.910
He starts calling out Hogan just like he did in 91. Right.
281
00:14:25.630 --> 00:14:27.610
Oh, he's not the champion. Right.
282
00:14:29.370 --> 00:14:32.590
Savage is infuriated that Ric Flair,
283
00:14:32.730 --> 00:14:36.330
the champion from the NWA, is calling out Hogan, not him.
284
00:14:36.490 --> 00:14:39.250
Like, I'm the champ around here, brother.
285
00:14:39.390 --> 00:14:42.910
You know, like he's fucking infuriated and insulted.
286
00:14:43.690 --> 00:14:46.850
And this is exactly what Ric Flair wants. Right.
287
00:14:47.250 --> 00:14:48.710
He's playing mind games.
288
00:14:49.310 --> 00:14:50.650
He's calling out.
289
00:14:50.650 --> 00:14:53.190
He's calling out Hogan. Savage goes,
290
00:14:54.110 --> 00:14:56.950
you know, well, you haven't really earned your way
291
00:14:56.950 --> 00:14:59.470
to a title shot yet, but I'll still fight you.
292
00:14:59.550 --> 00:15:00.970
And Flair goes, no, big man.
293
00:15:01.770 --> 00:15:02.750
No, big man.
294
00:15:03.190 --> 00:15:05.110
I'm not fighting you unless it's for the title.
295
00:15:06.250 --> 00:15:09.390
They make a match for Saturday night's main event.
296
00:15:11.550 --> 00:15:13.530
Tully and Aaron are not in the scene yet.
297
00:15:13.810 --> 00:15:16.650
It's just Flair and Bobby the Brain. OK.
298
00:15:18.050 --> 00:15:20.510
During the match on Saturday night's main event.
299
00:15:22.170 --> 00:15:26.250
Bobby the Brain brings out some people during the match.
300
00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:28.130
There's a ref bump. Something happens.
301
00:15:28.690 --> 00:15:29.750
Right. Right.
302
00:15:30.070 --> 00:15:32.170
Arn and Tully make their presence known.
303
00:15:32.610 --> 00:15:35.330
They destroy the Macho Man.
304
00:15:36.970 --> 00:15:38.890
And Ric Flair wins the world title
305
00:15:38.890 --> 00:15:41.030
on Saturday night's main event.
306
00:15:42.970 --> 00:15:46.230
Then Savage, even more infuriated now.
307
00:15:46.950 --> 00:15:50.230
Right. His pride has been taken away, too. Right.
308
00:15:51.010 --> 00:15:53.990
His team challenges Flair's team at Survivor Series.
309
00:15:53.990 --> 00:15:59.870
Mm hmm. And it's Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard.
310
00:16:01.590 --> 00:16:03.890
But there's only three. Right.
311
00:16:04.950 --> 00:16:09.870
Barry Windham shows up during the match as their mystery partner.
312
00:16:10.290 --> 00:16:13.490
Let's say they eliminate all of Savage's partners.
313
00:16:14.370 --> 00:16:18.210
And the horsemen who don't ever care about winning matches like this,
314
00:16:18.230 --> 00:16:19.570
because what's the stakes for this match?
315
00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:20.390
They don't give a shit.
316
00:16:20.990 --> 00:16:24.410
They just all destroy Randy Savage at the same time. Right.
317
00:16:24.410 --> 00:16:27.850
Like they break his fucking ankle or something with a chair.
318
00:16:27.850 --> 00:16:29.210
They pilmanize them.
319
00:16:29.330 --> 00:16:31.510
They do something absolutely horrible.
320
00:16:31.850 --> 00:16:35.730
OK. And maybe Sherry Martel becomes
321
00:16:35.730 --> 00:16:40.490
the manager of the horsemen with Bobby Heenan. Right.
322
00:16:41.150 --> 00:16:43.890
She takes out Elizabeth. Right.
323
00:16:44.090 --> 00:16:47.810
Hogan takes Elizabeth to the back for emergency treatment,
324
00:16:48.510 --> 00:16:52.330
leaving Savage alone, deserting Savage, even
325
00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:55.230
leaving Savage to be killed by this entire team.
326
00:16:56.050 --> 00:16:58.770
Savage is killed by this entire team. They're disqualified.
327
00:16:59.030 --> 00:17:03.030
I mean, they don't even savage wins the match, but it doesn't even matter.
328
00:17:03.030 --> 00:17:05.589
Right. He's on your universe with the call out blade.
329
00:17:05.730 --> 00:17:07.270
I believe you mean the Widowmaker.
330
00:17:07.710 --> 00:17:11.170
Exactly. Is Barry, is Barry in WWF at that point?
331
00:17:11.609 --> 00:17:13.069
I know not yet.
332
00:17:13.069 --> 00:17:15.589
NWA at that point, 88. He's still in the NWA.
333
00:17:15.650 --> 00:17:17.609
He's the U.S. champion. Right.
334
00:17:18.170 --> 00:17:19.390
But he's about to leave.
335
00:17:19.569 --> 00:17:22.010
I mean, he's he's really, really close to leaving.
336
00:17:22.329 --> 00:17:25.310
Flip flopping back and forth a lot through the 80s and 90s.
337
00:17:25.310 --> 00:17:28.390
So it's not outlandish to think he'd be back. Right.
338
00:17:28.610 --> 00:17:32.450
Well, and certainly, I mean, our argument is essentially
339
00:17:32.450 --> 00:17:36.230
if Ric Flair doesn't isn't part of the deal that Ted Turner
340
00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:40.090
doesn't buy Jim Crockett promotions, you're getting ahead of yourself.
341
00:17:41.130 --> 00:17:42.930
I'm just saying there's a lot of people.
342
00:17:43.410 --> 00:17:46.710
I'm just there's a lot of people available. So.
343
00:17:48.550 --> 00:17:51.350
Flair is the WWF champion. Right.
344
00:17:51.350 --> 00:17:53.870
He holds onto the belt, keeps calling out Hogan.
345
00:17:54.250 --> 00:17:56.150
There's a parade of baby faces.
346
00:17:57.870 --> 00:18:00.470
There's a parade of baby face challengers
347
00:18:00.470 --> 00:18:02.590
that are dealt with as they come.
348
00:18:02.830 --> 00:18:05.670
Well, and also keep in mind, this is the first time
349
00:18:06.190 --> 00:18:11.150
I mean, the four horsemen are a template for for gang warfare.
350
00:18:11.730 --> 00:18:13.570
WWF has never seen that.
351
00:18:13.790 --> 00:18:15.990
You know what I mean? They've never seen people.
352
00:18:16.070 --> 00:18:18.370
They've already run roughshod through one company.
353
00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:20.350
Now they show up in the other company
354
00:18:20.350 --> 00:18:22.790
and they start fucking taking people out left and right.
355
00:18:23.030 --> 00:18:24.870
It's unheard of. It's crazy.
356
00:18:25.830 --> 00:18:27.350
Right. And it goes.
357
00:18:28.550 --> 00:18:30.890
Go ahead. No, I was going to say, I mean,
358
00:18:31.770 --> 00:18:34.270
basically, that's your WrestleMania five main event.
359
00:18:34.650 --> 00:18:39.350
Right. Hogan versus Flair instead of instead of Hogan.
360
00:18:39.930 --> 00:18:43.690
Right. Instead of Hogan and Savage at five. Mm hmm.
361
00:18:43.790 --> 00:18:47.030
It's going to lead to Flair and Hogan at five.
362
00:18:47.030 --> 00:18:49.850
Now, imagine for a minute.
363
00:18:51.390 --> 00:18:55.190
Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan in 1989 instead of nineteen
364
00:18:55.190 --> 00:18:58.070
ninety one or whenever we saw them.
365
00:18:58.490 --> 00:19:01.850
Yeah, really. Ninety four was the only time they ever fought on a pay
366
00:19:01.850 --> 00:19:03.750
per view. Yeah, they never did.
367
00:19:03.770 --> 00:19:05.490
It's all house shows, right? Mm hmm.
368
00:19:05.830 --> 00:19:08.730
So and then you've got furthering the story.
369
00:19:08.970 --> 00:19:11.690
You've got Flair's got sensational Sherry on his side.
370
00:19:12.670 --> 00:19:15.970
So Hogan, of course, still has Liz as his backup
371
00:19:15.970 --> 00:19:19.770
and Savage is, you know, in the hospital for however many weeks
372
00:19:19.770 --> 00:19:21.270
or months or however long it is.
373
00:19:24.050 --> 00:19:24.750
Go on.
374
00:19:25.270 --> 00:19:26.790
Hogan presumably wins it.
375
00:19:27.330 --> 00:19:27.850
We're going to go.
376
00:19:27.950 --> 00:19:30.350
We're going to go with the idea that Hulk Hogan beats Flair
377
00:19:30.350 --> 00:19:34.690
at WrestleMania five, because that is the thing Vince McMahon
378
00:19:34.690 --> 00:19:36.950
would have most likely done. Right.
379
00:19:37.370 --> 00:19:40.150
Hogan always has, you know, Hogan most pose, whatever the.
380
00:19:40.530 --> 00:19:41.790
Yeah. Hogan's going to win it at that point.
381
00:19:41.910 --> 00:19:44.530
Yeah. Hogan overcomes all the horsemen,
382
00:19:45.430 --> 00:19:48.850
overcomes everything, and it's Hogan and Elizabeth
383
00:19:48.850 --> 00:19:53.590
in the ring together posing down, posing down.
384
00:19:53.630 --> 00:19:57.110
Hogan has her up on his shoulder, just like Macho Man players
385
00:19:57.110 --> 00:19:58.630
defeated and humiliated.
386
00:19:58.650 --> 00:20:01.270
Maybe demolition got the tag belts back from the Brain Busters.
387
00:20:01.330 --> 00:20:02.430
I don't know. Maybe.
388
00:20:02.750 --> 00:20:03.110
Who knows?
389
00:20:03.150 --> 00:20:06.390
Hogan does the Macho Man finger thing and turns around in the circle
390
00:20:06.390 --> 00:20:12.120
as a tribute, but he's standing there at the aisle.
391
00:20:13.220 --> 00:20:15.600
Well, he doesn't show up on Raw the next night.
392
00:20:15.840 --> 00:20:18.020
Yeah, there's no raw at the time.
393
00:20:19.280 --> 00:20:21.520
But Macho is not happy.
394
00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:24.460
OK, but he shows up.
395
00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:27.320
He tells Hogan he does what Macho Man would do.
396
00:20:27.320 --> 00:20:30.260
He would tell him, hey, she's mine.
397
00:20:30.820 --> 00:20:33.680
You know that, you know, she's mine.
398
00:20:34.260 --> 00:20:35.880
You can't, you know.
399
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.080
You got lost in your eyes, brother.
400
00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:39.440
You've got lust in your eyes.
401
00:20:39.500 --> 00:20:43.340
But he shakes Hogan's hand to pretend like everything's OK.
402
00:20:44.280 --> 00:20:47.260
And just a few weeks later, Savage picks his spot
403
00:20:47.260 --> 00:20:50.380
and turns on Hogan. Mm hmm.
404
00:20:50.580 --> 00:20:53.520
That feud becomes WrestleMania six.
405
00:20:54.340 --> 00:20:57.800
You never have the ultimate warrior in Hogan.
406
00:20:58.040 --> 00:21:01.040
I mean, event and the ultimate warrior.
407
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.420
Never becomes the world heavyweight champion because
408
00:21:06.260 --> 00:21:07.700
there's no WCW.
409
00:21:08.020 --> 00:21:09.120
You don't need him.
410
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:10.160
So you don't need him.
411
00:21:10.460 --> 00:21:12.140
It's worth it's worth noting.
412
00:21:12.140 --> 00:21:17.020
At SummerSlam 88, the the moment that we dropped the pebble
413
00:21:17.020 --> 00:21:19.220
in the pond and that causes the ripples.
414
00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:21.640
That was the night that the ultimate warrior
415
00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:25.280
ended the honky tonk man's was like 14 month reign
416
00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:26.800
as intercontinental champion.
417
00:21:27.100 --> 00:21:29.600
Surprise entrant was supposed to be Brutus Beefcake.
418
00:21:29.620 --> 00:21:30.740
Beefcake wasn't there.
419
00:21:30.980 --> 00:21:32.180
Ultimate Warrior shows up.
420
00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:35.440
And then the warrior just kind of rode that intercontinental title
421
00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:36.740
until WrestleMania six.
422
00:21:36.840 --> 00:21:39.260
But you don't need him to do that here.
423
00:21:39.300 --> 00:21:39.940
No, we don't.
424
00:21:39.940 --> 00:21:42.660
We don't need a warrior because we have Savage.
425
00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:47.120
Well, and and I think.
426
00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:50.820
Having Savage to lean on into 90.
427
00:21:51.940 --> 00:21:55.180
You have Flair who can feud with all these other people.
428
00:21:55.420 --> 00:21:58.480
Now he can he can elevate people like Bret Hart.
429
00:21:58.580 --> 00:22:00.280
He can elevate the Shawn Michaels.
430
00:22:00.580 --> 00:22:02.060
He can elevate these other people.
431
00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:03.740
The horsemen can stay a unit.
432
00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.360
You can have maybe down the road, you can have a Bret Hart
433
00:22:07.360 --> 00:22:08.620
join the horsemen.
434
00:22:08.620 --> 00:22:12.080
You know, they turn on Barry Windham so he can have a babyface run
435
00:22:12.080 --> 00:22:14.960
and Bret Hart replaces him or whatever.
436
00:22:15.140 --> 00:22:15.720
Well, yeah.
437
00:22:15.780 --> 00:22:20.240
Or the end if the NWA in a final desperate gas
438
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:22.780
starts throwing money at Barry Windham saying
439
00:22:22.780 --> 00:22:25.180
we're going to make you the man or you know, you're the guy.
440
00:22:25.280 --> 00:22:26.320
We're finally going to promote you.
441
00:22:26.340 --> 00:22:28.060
And that leaves an empty spot.
442
00:22:29.340 --> 00:22:31.660
Yeah, you don't need to have the brain busters leaving.
443
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:36.020
So all in all, this Savage ends up being the odd man out.
444
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.300
I mean, isn't he kind of always the odd man out Savage?
445
00:22:39.520 --> 00:22:41.020
That Savage is like gimmick.
446
00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:42.520
He's always the odd man out.
447
00:22:43.300 --> 00:22:46.460
He always played second fiddle to Hogan and he knew it.
448
00:22:46.460 --> 00:22:49.660
And I mean, when he wasn't playing second fiddle to Hogan,
449
00:22:49.700 --> 00:22:53.640
he was trying to play second fiddle to Hogan behind the scenes.
450
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.120
Like that's really true.
451
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.980
You know, Randy, I think, would always be built
452
00:23:00.980 --> 00:23:03.380
to be a hulks nemesis no matter how you got there.
453
00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:05.640
I think they would have.
454
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.640
Yeah, well, because if you keep Randy as a good guy,
455
00:23:09.080 --> 00:23:10.480
he he overshadows Hulk.
456
00:23:10.600 --> 00:23:12.380
He's cooler than Hulk Hogan.
457
00:23:12.520 --> 00:23:15.580
He's way going to gravitate every I mean, like I said, I mean,
458
00:23:15.580 --> 00:23:18.480
I know this isn't like the fucking scientific litmus test,
459
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:21.900
but like all the kids on the bus liked Randy Savage.
460
00:23:22.360 --> 00:23:24.260
You you were 40 years later.
461
00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:26.760
And do you like Hogan or Savage?
462
00:23:27.080 --> 00:23:28.560
You know, right, right.
463
00:23:28.620 --> 00:23:31.960
I mean, even still to this day, Randy Savage did cartoons.
464
00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:36.160
Randy Savage, everybody just he was in fucking Spider-Man.
465
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:37.500
He had a rap album.
466
00:23:37.860 --> 00:23:38.960
Yeah, it was a cultural icon.
467
00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:42.080
And yes, Hogan was, too, but.
468
00:23:42.080 --> 00:23:44.020
Savage did it while yeah,
469
00:23:44.340 --> 00:23:47.280
Savage did it while having Hogan's thumb on the scale, basically.
470
00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:50.020
You know, Hogan is doing everything in his power
471
00:23:50.020 --> 00:23:53.020
to not let Randy be that guy, and he was.
472
00:23:53.020 --> 00:23:55.860
So, yeah, if Randy's a good guy, no, it's not going to work.
473
00:23:55.860 --> 00:23:57.360
They have to make him a bad guy.
474
00:23:58.600 --> 00:24:03.330
So you have so Antoine says
475
00:24:03.330 --> 00:24:07.090
I think Savage becomes a bigger star with Flair there earlier.
476
00:24:07.090 --> 00:24:08.030
We all hated Hogan.
477
00:24:08.190 --> 00:24:10.530
He just would have had more gloating time.
478
00:24:11.890 --> 00:24:14.910
Probably, but yeah, that's an interesting point.
479
00:24:15.690 --> 00:24:16.930
What if I mean, we're sitting here saying
480
00:24:16.930 --> 00:24:18.830
that there's no need for the ultimate warrior.
481
00:24:18.910 --> 00:24:21.950
Sure. What if Hogan starts getting phased out a little earlier?
482
00:24:22.270 --> 00:24:24.550
Well, and that's that's what I was just about to say.
483
00:24:24.970 --> 00:24:29.450
So we know that by 1990, Vince thinks that Hogan needs to be replaced,
484
00:24:29.450 --> 00:24:33.430
you know, and that he's starting to feel the urge to replace Hulk Hogan.
485
00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:36.370
Right. I don't think he would have replaced him with Macho Man
486
00:24:36.370 --> 00:24:38.910
because he thought Macho Man was old, too. Right.
487
00:24:39.650 --> 00:24:44.630
However, if Ric Flair isn't part of this Turner deal,
488
00:24:45.410 --> 00:24:47.250
let's just say it was all true.
489
00:24:47.810 --> 00:24:49.470
Turner doesn't buy.
490
00:24:50.750 --> 00:24:52.630
Doesn't buy Jim Crockett promotions.
491
00:24:52.810 --> 00:24:54.670
It's just a dead entity now.
492
00:24:56.150 --> 00:24:58.870
I have Smackdown Hotel pulled up right now.
493
00:24:59.450 --> 00:25:04.190
And I'm looking at the 1988 roster of Jim Crockett promotions.
494
00:25:05.130 --> 00:25:08.330
The free agents just on the open market
495
00:25:09.140 --> 00:25:12.390
are Bam Bam Bigelow, Bobby Eaton,
496
00:25:12.710 --> 00:25:15.650
Dennis Condrey, Dick Murdoch, Dr.
497
00:25:15.770 --> 00:25:19.550
Death, Steve Williams, Dusty Rhodes, Eddie Gilbert,
498
00:25:20.350 --> 00:25:24.390
Ivan Koloff, Jim Ross, Jim Cornett,
499
00:25:24.390 --> 00:25:28.310
JJ Dillon, Kendall Windham, Kevin Sullivan,
500
00:25:28.910 --> 00:25:34.550
Larry Zabisco, Lex Luger, Mike Rotunda, Nikita Koloff,
501
00:25:36.030 --> 00:25:39.410
Paul E. Dangerously, Paul Ellering, Rick Steiner,
502
00:25:40.350 --> 00:25:44.530
the Road Warriors, Ron Simmons, very, very green Ron Simmons,
503
00:25:44.770 --> 00:25:45.830
Russian Assassin 2.
504
00:25:46.010 --> 00:25:48.290
I don't know why only two is there.
505
00:25:48.710 --> 00:25:51.370
Stan Lane and Sting.
506
00:25:51.750 --> 00:25:53.570
Soon to be followed by Scott Steiner, too,
507
00:25:53.570 --> 00:25:54.430
because you've already got Rick.
508
00:25:54.770 --> 00:25:56.450
Right. Scott's going to show up.
509
00:25:56.930 --> 00:26:01.790
Right. So in this scenario, Jim Crockett doesn't sell the Turner.
510
00:26:03.130 --> 00:26:05.450
It doesn't mean Crockett goes out of business right away.
511
00:26:05.630 --> 00:26:07.750
It doesn't mean the NWA disappears right away.
512
00:26:08.750 --> 00:26:12.310
But all those dudes are available, potentially.
513
00:26:13.670 --> 00:26:15.610
NWA is going to throw a little money at some of them.
514
00:26:15.690 --> 00:26:17.910
They're going to try to keep some of the dudes that they want.
515
00:26:18.570 --> 00:26:20.450
But somebody is going to go up north.
516
00:26:20.450 --> 00:26:24.390
And I'm thinking Luger and Sting are pretty much shoe ends.
517
00:26:24.770 --> 00:26:26.370
I think Luger and Sting definitely.
518
00:26:26.750 --> 00:26:30.510
So here's why the warrior becomes completely disposable.
519
00:26:31.390 --> 00:26:35.850
Because Vince McMahon would have gotten such a boner for Lex Luger.
520
00:26:35.890 --> 00:26:37.430
Wouldn't even be funny.
521
00:26:37.850 --> 00:26:39.770
OK, Lex Luger at this time.
522
00:26:41.070 --> 00:26:45.130
And Lex Luger very likely would have been the understudy of Hulk Hogan.
523
00:26:46.530 --> 00:26:49.730
While I think Vince would have built up
524
00:26:49.730 --> 00:26:52.290
Lex Luger to be the next Hulk Hogan.
525
00:26:52.590 --> 00:26:54.210
He would have tried with all of his heart.
526
00:26:54.490 --> 00:26:56.390
In 1989, absolutely. Yeah.
527
00:26:56.390 --> 00:26:58.290
Because that's that's young Luger.
528
00:26:58.510 --> 00:27:00.710
It's when it's before he got bored with the business.
529
00:27:00.790 --> 00:27:04.270
It's before he turned into the Luger that we didn't really like so much
530
00:27:04.270 --> 00:27:06.770
in the early 2000s. Yeah, absolutely.
531
00:27:06.890 --> 00:27:08.550
He would. And he's he's blonde.
532
00:27:08.750 --> 00:27:11.730
He's buff. He's fucking got a crazy physique.
533
00:27:12.350 --> 00:27:15.690
And he's got an alliterative name, which we know Vince McMahon
534
00:27:16.770 --> 00:27:19.170
absolutely adores. Yes. Yes.
535
00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:22.010
Yes. So you don't need the warrior.
536
00:27:22.070 --> 00:27:23.230
And the warrior is a jerk.
537
00:27:23.290 --> 00:27:24.230
The warrior is an asshole.
538
00:27:24.310 --> 00:27:27.050
Why would you want to deal with him if you don't have to, you know?
539
00:27:27.130 --> 00:27:30.270
Well, and you and I were talking offline like you booked the warrior
540
00:27:30.270 --> 00:27:32.730
the way he booked attraction babyfaces.
541
00:27:32.730 --> 00:27:34.810
You book him the same way you book Andre the giant.
542
00:27:34.870 --> 00:27:36.890
You just have him wrestle every once in a while
543
00:27:37.370 --> 00:27:39.570
and you have him disappear for long stretches.
544
00:27:40.590 --> 00:27:44.170
He wasn't really good with people, so he can't be a company
545
00:27:44.170 --> 00:27:45.390
representative anywhere.
546
00:27:45.610 --> 00:27:48.750
He's not a good wrestler, so he can't like go
547
00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:51.930
to other places and represent the company there. Right.
548
00:27:52.070 --> 00:27:53.370
So you just use him. He's fired.
549
00:27:53.690 --> 00:27:55.450
Quite honestly, it might be. Yeah.
550
00:27:56.390 --> 00:28:00.070
But you have Lex Luger and then as a backup in Vince's world,
551
00:28:00.230 --> 00:28:03.090
I think Sting is Luger's backup, not the other way around.
552
00:28:03.590 --> 00:28:04.170
You know what I mean?
553
00:28:04.570 --> 00:28:05.770
In Vince's world, absolutely.
554
00:28:06.030 --> 00:28:09.870
Yeah. Or Sting's part of a tag team or Sting is, you know, who knows
555
00:28:09.870 --> 00:28:11.770
where else he would have been.
556
00:28:12.670 --> 00:28:15.330
You want to let's see what folks are talking about this business.
557
00:28:15.330 --> 00:28:17.290
Yeah, we got some talk going on here.
558
00:28:17.290 --> 00:28:20.310
Larry Rotunda, Koloff, the Steiner's would have been snatched up.
559
00:28:20.350 --> 00:28:21.050
Yeah, absolutely.
560
00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:23.550
Oh, yeah. Can you imagine Vince with Nikita Koloff?
561
00:28:23.810 --> 00:28:25.190
Oh, yeah. Like that.
562
00:28:25.310 --> 00:28:25.750
Definitely.
563
00:28:26.150 --> 00:28:29.930
Having having maybe Hogan in a non title feud with Nikita Koloff.
564
00:28:30.230 --> 00:28:30.790
Right. Yeah.
565
00:28:31.730 --> 00:28:33.350
Yeah, I think Ron Simmons would have been buried,
566
00:28:33.350 --> 00:28:35.110
but that's WWF, too. Right.
567
00:28:37.030 --> 00:28:39.130
What is this? This would be a very fun.
568
00:28:41.230 --> 00:28:43.430
J.O.W.T.E.W. scenario to play out.
569
00:28:43.590 --> 00:28:45.430
I don't I'm not familiar.
570
00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:47.510
Larry, could you elaborate, please?
571
00:28:48.670 --> 00:28:49.630
Yes, yes.
572
00:28:49.970 --> 00:28:52.530
Luger negates the need for the other. Absolutely.
573
00:28:52.750 --> 00:28:55.110
Well, if you have if you have what if you had a version
574
00:28:55.110 --> 00:28:59.010
of the ultimate warrior that wasn't an asshole and could mostly wrestle?
575
00:28:59.890 --> 00:29:03.070
Yeah, I mean, like Luger would be the superior ultimate warrior
576
00:29:03.070 --> 00:29:05.330
if you actually like gave him the gimmick.
577
00:29:05.630 --> 00:29:08.450
But yeah, we already had the gimmick at this time. So,
578
00:29:09.430 --> 00:29:12.530
you know, that's another episode that far. Yeah.
579
00:29:14.610 --> 00:29:16.570
But it's the 80s and Singh would have been white hot
580
00:29:16.570 --> 00:29:18.170
and he absolutely would have been white hot.
581
00:29:18.310 --> 00:29:19.410
He would have been my hot.
582
00:29:19.470 --> 00:29:22.110
And this is why I figure they would have definitely signed him
583
00:29:22.110 --> 00:29:25.350
is because he already would have had the 45 minute draw with Flair
584
00:29:25.350 --> 00:29:28.110
at the Clash of Champions earlier this same year.
585
00:29:28.590 --> 00:29:30.210
Mm hmm. Oh, here we go.
586
00:29:30.230 --> 00:29:33.930
Journey of Wrestling and T.E.W. are both booking sim games.
587
00:29:34.050 --> 00:29:36.410
Oh, cool. That's cool. That is really cool.
588
00:29:37.250 --> 00:29:39.790
Yeah. So, I mean, it's it changes.
589
00:29:41.110 --> 00:29:41.550
Everything.
590
00:29:41.890 --> 00:29:46.150
I don't think because what was the reason for Iron and Tully leaving W.W.F.
591
00:29:47.010 --> 00:29:48.070
Just they were.
592
00:29:48.290 --> 00:29:52.730
You know, because they were not making the money that Vince promised them.
593
00:29:53.790 --> 00:29:58.530
So they had downside guarantees that were very small back in those days.
594
00:29:58.630 --> 00:30:00.610
Vince didn't guarantee you shit. Right.
595
00:30:00.730 --> 00:30:03.270
And he said, but you'll always make more money with me, pal.
596
00:30:03.450 --> 00:30:06.290
And what he told them, they would definitely make better.
597
00:30:06.350 --> 00:30:08.150
They didn't make it even get to that amount.
598
00:30:08.150 --> 00:30:10.110
And so they were like, we're done.
599
00:30:10.390 --> 00:30:10.950
We want out.
600
00:30:12.190 --> 00:30:16.030
And that's when they drop a drug test on Tully Blanchard. Right. Right.
601
00:30:16.370 --> 00:30:19.250
You know, but in this scenario, they had been making bank.
602
00:30:19.510 --> 00:30:22.890
Those guys would have been in part of the biggest storyline in the business.
603
00:30:23.450 --> 00:30:25.910
So, yeah, they absolutely would have stuck around.
604
00:30:26.210 --> 00:30:29.750
Yeah. Tony Khan is a big T.E.W. guy that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
605
00:30:30.270 --> 00:30:32.130
So here's another question.
606
00:30:33.690 --> 00:30:35.670
Since I think we've kind of gone through
607
00:30:35.670 --> 00:30:38.810
basically our opening scenario of what we think would have happened.
608
00:30:39.170 --> 00:30:41.290
Let's say Barry Windham is not available.
609
00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:46.510
Let's say Jim Crockett either is or isn't in charge of the NWA.
610
00:30:46.670 --> 00:30:48.170
I don't know what happens to the NWA.
611
00:30:48.430 --> 00:30:49.830
But he's not. It wouldn't be.
612
00:30:49.930 --> 00:30:51.650
No, because he was already on his way out.
613
00:30:51.730 --> 00:30:53.230
Yeah. So but whoever isn't.
614
00:30:53.230 --> 00:30:55.770
Oh, and he just blew it. You know. Yeah.
615
00:30:57.090 --> 00:31:00.250
They say, Barry, now this is you're the last guy we've got left.
616
00:31:00.570 --> 00:31:01.750
You're you're Barry Windham.
617
00:31:01.850 --> 00:31:02.970
You're a second generation star.
618
00:31:02.970 --> 00:31:06.730
He gets elevated up to the world title and he stays in the NWA.
619
00:31:07.710 --> 00:31:08.990
Who are the other folks?
620
00:31:09.190 --> 00:31:11.230
Antoine is already answering my question.
621
00:31:11.470 --> 00:31:13.930
Who else could have been in the horsemen?
622
00:31:14.210 --> 00:31:15.770
Who would have been the fourth man?
623
00:31:16.030 --> 00:31:17.110
Kurt Henning would have been.
624
00:31:17.390 --> 00:31:18.810
Was he in the AWA at that point?
625
00:31:19.290 --> 00:31:20.950
No, he was in WWF by this.
626
00:31:21.090 --> 00:31:21.510
He's already there.
627
00:31:21.910 --> 00:31:24.190
We just debuted in the WWF.
628
00:31:24.870 --> 00:31:25.430
OK. Yeah.
629
00:31:25.430 --> 00:31:26.750
So he's like your young buck.
630
00:31:26.890 --> 00:31:29.690
He's your young guy that you're like, you know,
631
00:31:30.890 --> 00:31:32.870
Rick Rood is in the Heenan family at this point.
632
00:31:32.870 --> 00:31:34.870
And I think Rood is a pretty
633
00:31:36.690 --> 00:31:38.670
solid pick to throw him in the horsemen.
634
00:31:40.390 --> 00:31:42.450
Andre, the giant is in the Heenan family
635
00:31:43.330 --> 00:31:46.450
and Andre could be a good muscle man.
636
00:31:46.610 --> 00:31:50.970
Right. Big, huge, four fucking enormous fingers.
637
00:31:51.230 --> 00:31:53.710
Seeing Andre do the floor would have been so dope.
638
00:31:54.210 --> 00:31:55.570
It's the last I mean.
639
00:31:56.670 --> 00:32:00.050
Look, Vince gave Andre the belt just so he'd always have that spot
640
00:32:00.050 --> 00:32:01.830
in the history, you know what I mean?
641
00:32:01.830 --> 00:32:02.990
It's a five second reign.
642
00:32:03.190 --> 00:32:05.050
Whatever. Vince loved Andre.
643
00:32:07.330 --> 00:32:09.490
Andre was in a tag team with Haku, right?
644
00:32:09.510 --> 00:32:11.070
So that Haku could all do all the work
645
00:32:11.070 --> 00:32:12.470
and Andre would just stand there.
646
00:32:13.230 --> 00:32:16.070
Well, imagine there's three other guys to do all the work for him.
647
00:32:16.070 --> 00:32:17.530
Right. And he's just the muscle.
648
00:32:17.610 --> 00:32:18.710
Andre is a perfect fit.
649
00:32:20.130 --> 00:32:22.410
I think it's worth mentioning that because it's Vince McMahon,
650
00:32:22.610 --> 00:32:25.370
because it's 1988 leading into 1989,
651
00:32:26.470 --> 00:32:28.210
you know, Zeus could have been an option.
652
00:32:29.350 --> 00:32:31.030
Zeus absolutely could have been an option
653
00:32:31.030 --> 00:32:33.570
as much as we all fucking hate to admit it.
654
00:32:34.390 --> 00:32:36.730
That's a pretty real possibility.
655
00:32:37.870 --> 00:32:41.170
Really in private pushing the theory that Zeus could have been the fourth.
656
00:32:41.510 --> 00:32:44.770
I was absolutely pushing the theory that Zeus could have been the fourth.
657
00:32:45.890 --> 00:32:48.370
Zeus headlined SummerSlam the following year.
658
00:32:48.710 --> 00:32:51.570
Did he not? Hey, one has a response to this.
659
00:32:52.370 --> 00:32:54.470
No, no.
660
00:32:54.810 --> 00:32:56.590
I'm not saying I want it.
661
00:32:56.830 --> 00:32:58.230
No, no.
662
00:32:59.510 --> 00:33:01.130
I'm not saying I want it.
663
00:33:01.130 --> 00:33:03.090
I'm just saying, let's be realistic here.
664
00:33:03.250 --> 00:33:05.450
This man put Dusty Rhodes in polka dots.
665
00:33:05.610 --> 00:33:07.410
He might have put Zeus in the horsemen.
666
00:33:07.630 --> 00:33:08.610
It's not impossible.
667
00:33:08.690 --> 00:33:11.670
And maybe where after he drops the belt to Hogan,
668
00:33:12.790 --> 00:33:17.470
him and Zeus tag team against Savage and Hogan at SummerSlam or something,
669
00:33:17.510 --> 00:33:19.710
you know, like who's to say or Luger?
670
00:33:19.710 --> 00:33:23.910
You need the thing is because this is a timeline I will not accept.
671
00:33:24.150 --> 00:33:24.770
We're going to sit here
672
00:33:24.770 --> 00:33:26.570
and we're going to say that the NWA goes out of business.
673
00:33:26.570 --> 00:33:29.770
We're going to say that Rick Flair wins the WWF title in 1988,
674
00:33:29.770 --> 00:33:33.250
but I am not going to live in a world in which Tiny Lister
675
00:33:33.250 --> 00:33:35.930
doesn't eventually play Debo in Friday.
676
00:33:36.470 --> 00:33:38.650
And this is his first big claim to fame.
677
00:33:38.850 --> 00:33:42.370
You need SummerSlam fucking shit on Zeus all you want.
678
00:33:42.650 --> 00:33:44.130
But it ends up with Friday.
679
00:33:44.490 --> 00:33:46.110
I'm willing to fucking love Debo, dude.
680
00:33:46.210 --> 00:33:47.670
I'm fucking love Tiny Lister.
681
00:33:47.770 --> 00:33:48.910
I'm a big fan.
682
00:33:49.250 --> 00:33:51.550
I have the Hogan versus Zeus.
683
00:33:51.690 --> 00:33:56.230
San Diego Comic Con only exactly like I love that shit.
684
00:33:56.230 --> 00:33:59.050
So Zeus might have been horrible,
685
00:33:59.050 --> 00:34:02.530
but the eventual thing we got down the road was Friday.
686
00:34:02.670 --> 00:34:06.030
And I'm willing to I'm willing to deal with it.
687
00:34:07.010 --> 00:34:08.949
Well, you already got a summer of it anyway, right?
688
00:34:09.030 --> 00:34:10.030
You got a summer of it.
689
00:34:11.070 --> 00:34:12.870
I don't see Hercules Antoine.
690
00:34:12.909 --> 00:34:13.610
I just don't.
691
00:34:13.830 --> 00:34:15.070
I know he wasn't.
692
00:34:15.290 --> 00:34:17.510
He was a guy like, you know how I said,
693
00:34:17.510 --> 00:34:21.170
you could book the warrior as like more of like an attraction.
694
00:34:21.230 --> 00:34:24.750
You have him come back and beat guys like Hercules.
695
00:34:24.750 --> 00:34:26.210
You know, right.
696
00:34:26.710 --> 00:34:28.290
Hercules is like a gatekeeper guy, right?
697
00:34:28.730 --> 00:34:31.949
Hercules, if maybe he would have realized that you can go to the tanner
698
00:34:31.949 --> 00:34:34.610
and tan your legs as well as the top half of your body.
699
00:34:34.650 --> 00:34:37.449
Maybe Hercules could have been a bigger time, but
700
00:34:37.449 --> 00:34:44.230
only the top skewer universe hates the idea of Zeus.
701
00:34:44.469 --> 00:34:45.989
But he says we're overlooking the obvious.
702
00:34:46.050 --> 00:34:48.090
And I wonder what the obvious is.
703
00:34:48.330 --> 00:34:50.250
Oh, well, I mean, come on, that's a given.
704
00:34:50.429 --> 00:34:50.949
Yeah, of course.
705
00:34:51.190 --> 00:34:52.630
Horowitz is the fourth horseman.
706
00:34:52.630 --> 00:34:53.909
Thanks, Barry Horowitz.
707
00:34:53.909 --> 00:34:55.469
Might have made a great horseman.
708
00:34:56.050 --> 00:34:58.630
He's about the same caliber as Paul Roma.
709
00:34:59.050 --> 00:35:01.310
So, yeah, you never know.
710
00:35:01.610 --> 00:35:06.230
So, OK, if nobody else in the chat has any other horse suggestions.
711
00:35:06.310 --> 00:35:07.430
Here's another question.
712
00:35:07.730 --> 00:35:09.230
I want to get back into this a minute.
713
00:35:09.870 --> 00:35:11.290
What does Ted DiBiase do?
714
00:35:11.990 --> 00:35:13.710
Well, and we talked about that at the top.
715
00:35:13.790 --> 00:35:15.310
I don't think he leaves.
716
00:35:16.050 --> 00:35:18.930
I think Ted DiBiase gives his notice because the million dollar
717
00:35:18.930 --> 00:35:20.470
man gimmick is done.
718
00:35:20.630 --> 00:35:21.850
It's Kaput. Yeah, there.
719
00:35:21.850 --> 00:35:23.230
You don't need it.
720
00:35:23.530 --> 00:35:25.390
It's basically the same gimmick.
721
00:35:25.730 --> 00:35:27.050
It's just, you know.
722
00:35:27.310 --> 00:35:31.030
So I think Ted DiBiase is a guy that the remaining
723
00:35:31.030 --> 00:35:32.910
NWA partners. Sure.
724
00:35:33.070 --> 00:35:35.330
You're saying the NWA goes away.
725
00:35:35.850 --> 00:35:37.590
No, Jim Crockett goes. Right.
726
00:35:37.830 --> 00:35:38.570
Right. Different deal.
727
00:35:39.050 --> 00:35:40.250
So I think.
728
00:35:41.550 --> 00:35:44.150
I think you're very correct that somebody would have thrown
729
00:35:44.150 --> 00:35:46.290
a bucket load of money at Barry Windham.
730
00:35:46.790 --> 00:35:49.270
And I think Ted's another guy they would throw up.
731
00:35:49.350 --> 00:35:50.010
Oh, for sure.
732
00:35:50.010 --> 00:35:53.110
Because Ted had carried a promotion on his back before,
733
00:35:54.010 --> 00:35:55.370
you know, you need guys like that.
734
00:35:55.510 --> 00:36:00.490
Maybe Barry, who has carried Florida before very and
735
00:36:00.490 --> 00:36:05.410
Ted are your baby face and heel at the top of world
736
00:36:05.410 --> 00:36:08.950
class at the top of where you also still have the von
737
00:36:08.950 --> 00:36:10.190
Erichs. Right.
738
00:36:10.670 --> 00:36:13.870
However, 88 is the year Fritz sells world class.
739
00:36:14.130 --> 00:36:16.950
So maybe that doesn't happen with all of this going on.
740
00:36:18.490 --> 00:36:21.230
Vergonia is still running the AWA, but this is the.
741
00:36:22.370 --> 00:36:23.310
Yeah, the death.
742
00:36:23.810 --> 00:36:26.090
Where is the AWA in 1988?
743
00:36:27.010 --> 00:36:28.790
Well, that's the year the key on a pole match.
744
00:36:28.790 --> 00:36:33.110
All are unified, the Memphis and and AWA title.
745
00:36:33.230 --> 00:36:37.270
And then they never paid Jerry Lawler and they stripped him of the belt
746
00:36:37.270 --> 00:36:39.890
because he wouldn't defend it because he never got paid to defend it.
747
00:36:42.570 --> 00:36:44.790
Yeah. So that's that's another question.
748
00:36:44.790 --> 00:36:49.110
And you also have all these people in Crockett who are free agents.
749
00:36:49.330 --> 00:36:50.470
You know, I think Dr.
750
00:36:50.630 --> 00:36:54.490
Death, you're going to see him go to Japan, Bam Bam Bigelow.
751
00:36:54.810 --> 00:36:56.850
I imagine he ends up in Japan.
752
00:36:58.390 --> 00:37:01.030
You know, he's he been in Japan at this point already or no,
753
00:37:01.170 --> 00:37:02.950
I don't think so. I don't think so.
754
00:37:02.950 --> 00:37:05.110
He just either goes a little earlier or what?
755
00:37:05.310 --> 00:37:06.730
It goes a little earlier. Yep.
756
00:37:07.090 --> 00:37:10.990
But you also have, you know, you have the Midnights are free agents.
757
00:37:10.990 --> 00:37:13.590
And I think that that's a very promising thing.
758
00:37:14.190 --> 00:37:16.650
The Rock and Roll Express were gone at this time as well.
759
00:37:16.690 --> 00:37:20.310
So, you know, they might have hooked up and done that same feud
760
00:37:20.310 --> 00:37:23.870
in Memphis or in Texas or wherever.
761
00:37:26.710 --> 00:37:29.310
Agree with you, Blair Lyon. Bam Bam was fucking awesome.
762
00:37:29.870 --> 00:37:33.110
I honestly, I'm so glad he got to be ECW champion
763
00:37:33.110 --> 00:37:35.850
because him not being a world champion would have been a crime.
764
00:37:36.870 --> 00:37:37.570
Yeah. Yeah.
765
00:37:38.030 --> 00:37:40.150
Bigelow was amazing in his day.
766
00:37:41.350 --> 00:37:43.290
I rave about the dude's name,
767
00:37:43.290 --> 00:37:45.230
but everything about that guy was perfect, too.
768
00:37:45.290 --> 00:37:48.130
And then ruled the tattoos on his head.
769
00:37:48.270 --> 00:37:50.390
People didn't have tattoos back then.
770
00:37:50.410 --> 00:37:53.090
Like you might have one on your arm.
771
00:37:53.270 --> 00:37:56.030
Yeah. Jesus. And he could do a little cartwheel and shit.
772
00:37:56.150 --> 00:37:57.290
I mean, that was great.
773
00:37:58.910 --> 00:37:59.990
What do we have here?
774
00:38:00.130 --> 00:38:01.490
Antoine says he goes earlier.
775
00:38:01.630 --> 00:38:03.190
Midnights go to Japan redundancy.
776
00:38:03.390 --> 00:38:05.870
I think of doom in Japan full time.
777
00:38:06.210 --> 00:38:07.750
Jesus Christ. Yeah.
778
00:38:08.150 --> 00:38:09.550
If doom's ever formed, right?
779
00:38:10.110 --> 00:38:11.650
Yeah. Maybe there is no doom.
780
00:38:11.650 --> 00:38:14.870
I mean, there's no WCW.
781
00:38:15.250 --> 00:38:16.650
There's no WCW.
782
00:38:16.670 --> 00:38:17.710
There's no WC.
783
00:38:18.110 --> 00:38:19.530
Those are trading cards.
784
00:38:19.670 --> 00:38:20.830
There's none of it.
785
00:38:21.030 --> 00:38:26.270
If we take what Antoine said that Nikita goes to WWF
786
00:38:26.270 --> 00:38:29.970
and Rotunda goes to WWF and
787
00:38:31.010 --> 00:38:34.510
I can't remember who else he's there was one other person he mentioned.
788
00:38:35.170 --> 00:38:38.130
But we take on Eric, I think off the table.
789
00:38:38.130 --> 00:38:43.110
I think eventually Vince makes a play for Kerry von Eric earlier than he did.
790
00:38:43.470 --> 00:38:45.350
Maybe the whole von Eric family goes.
791
00:38:45.750 --> 00:38:49.350
Maybe Vince buys Fritz out instead of that whole
792
00:38:50.310 --> 00:38:52.670
disaster between Jerry Jarrett and all of them.
793
00:38:53.230 --> 00:38:54.970
But then you've still got Memphis.
794
00:38:55.170 --> 00:38:57.330
But here's the other thing that you've got.
795
00:38:57.870 --> 00:39:01.230
And this really got our brains turning because I'm a genius.
796
00:39:02.110 --> 00:39:04.490
So you've got dusty roads.
797
00:39:05.850 --> 00:39:08.810
You've got I said, I'm a genius.
798
00:39:08.910 --> 00:39:10.090
You gave a weird look. What's that about?
799
00:39:10.230 --> 00:39:12.630
Oh, I just something something smelled strange.
800
00:39:12.870 --> 00:39:13.330
Is it interesting?
801
00:39:13.490 --> 00:39:15.070
Something's totally, totally unrelated.
802
00:39:15.110 --> 00:39:18.110
My dogs sometimes I fart and like it smells really bad.
803
00:39:18.110 --> 00:39:19.290
And I'm like, oh, who back?
804
00:39:19.410 --> 00:39:19.970
Yeah, no, no.
805
00:39:20.050 --> 00:39:23.070
I mean, it certainly didn't have anything to do with you calling yourself a genius.
806
00:39:23.190 --> 00:39:24.990
Go on. Tell us about Dusty Rose.
807
00:39:25.010 --> 00:39:25.630
I'm a genius.
808
00:39:26.790 --> 00:39:31.070
So you're looking at Kevin Sullivan, Dusty Rhodes,
809
00:39:31.070 --> 00:39:37.370
Paul Dangerously, Jim Ross, Jim Cornett, all right.
810
00:39:38.690 --> 00:39:39.570
Being free agents.
811
00:39:39.870 --> 00:39:42.850
Yeah, they're not all going to go to WWF.
812
00:39:42.910 --> 00:39:47.010
No, you're telling me they're not going to go start something then.
813
00:39:47.770 --> 00:39:49.790
They're not going to get investment money.
814
00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:54.050
Polly Dangerously is not going to fucking talk some schmuck into fucking
815
00:39:54.050 --> 00:39:55.350
paying his bill.
816
00:39:55.590 --> 00:39:57.870
Well, Ted Turner is still out there.
817
00:39:57.870 --> 00:40:01.630
So how do you know Polly Dangerously isn't talking to Ted Turner?
818
00:40:01.630 --> 00:40:04.730
And he doesn't just say, OK, look, so the Crockett thing didn't work out.
819
00:40:04.850 --> 00:40:08.450
But what if we give you your own wrestling promotion? Right.
820
00:40:09.890 --> 00:40:14.730
So, again, I mean, the Turner thing could still be in play something like
821
00:40:15.650 --> 00:40:19.450
you either get something like an ECW years ahead of time.
822
00:40:19.450 --> 00:40:20.110
Sure. Right.
823
00:40:21.130 --> 00:40:23.730
Or you get another big national promotion.
824
00:40:24.810 --> 00:40:27.950
Right. I don't think you would have had something as hardcore
825
00:40:27.950 --> 00:40:31.210
as ECW in 1988. Probably not.
826
00:40:31.470 --> 00:40:35.050
Again, I was 12 years old, so I can't really make that comment for sure.
827
00:40:35.510 --> 00:40:38.530
But the voice of the revolution kind of. Yeah, you know, yeah.
828
00:40:38.570 --> 00:40:41.430
It's young talent they can afford. And you've got.
829
00:40:42.490 --> 00:40:45.390
You know, we mentioned it earlier, and I'm positive
830
00:40:45.390 --> 00:40:49.610
you already gave the man a eulogy on Sit Down, Shut Up, Mark Out.
831
00:40:49.830 --> 00:40:51.370
But this is the thing.
832
00:40:51.370 --> 00:40:54.470
This is where we were talking at the top of the show about Ted
833
00:40:54.470 --> 00:40:56.610
Turner being such an important part of professional wrestling.
834
00:40:57.050 --> 00:41:01.810
If Ted Turner doesn't buy WCW and there and there's no competition for Vince,
835
00:41:02.470 --> 00:41:04.950
wrestling is a totally different animal.
836
00:41:05.730 --> 00:41:07.310
And we'll get into that at the end of the episode.
837
00:41:08.110 --> 00:41:11.710
But so let's say I mean, we know that Turner is a guy that loves wrestling.
838
00:41:11.770 --> 00:41:14.150
Turner always wants wrestling on his channels.
839
00:41:14.310 --> 00:41:16.710
He's always said wrestling always makes money.
840
00:41:16.770 --> 00:41:19.650
Yep. And he's always been loyal to professional wrestling.
841
00:41:20.310 --> 00:41:23.530
So maybe somebody like Dangerously or Heyman,
842
00:41:24.290 --> 00:41:27.310
maybe Heyman and Jim Ross do team up and they get in his ear.
843
00:41:27.310 --> 00:41:31.210
Maybe he starts whatever the big a new third promotion,
844
00:41:31.250 --> 00:41:33.170
which becomes the second promotion, whatever.
845
00:41:35.870 --> 00:41:37.310
Piers Piers wrestling.
846
00:41:37.310 --> 00:41:38.930
I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that right.
847
00:41:39.130 --> 00:41:41.630
Says, hey, guys, welcome to the show.
848
00:41:41.630 --> 00:41:43.630
What up? So, yeah.
849
00:41:44.510 --> 00:41:47.870
And you also got Kevin Sullivan, who's been unleashed
850
00:41:47.870 --> 00:41:52.330
and who could end up anywhere, you know, either starting a promotion,
851
00:41:52.950 --> 00:41:55.790
you know, him and Dusty might try to get Florida going again.
852
00:41:57.530 --> 00:42:01.510
But the old school territories probably live a little longer
853
00:42:01.510 --> 00:42:03.430
without WCW happening.
854
00:42:03.650 --> 00:42:06.650
It's just national wrestling only has one company. Right.
855
00:42:07.590 --> 00:42:09.910
So then the other question, and I don't know if I if we're getting
856
00:42:09.910 --> 00:42:11.970
too far ahead of ourselves here, but like.
857
00:42:13.110 --> 00:42:15.410
When does wrestling start?
858
00:42:17.270 --> 00:42:18.230
Dying out.
859
00:42:18.770 --> 00:42:22.330
Well, the warrior time period, 89, I was just about to say,
860
00:42:22.350 --> 00:42:25.790
this is why I put Savage and Hogan at WrestleMania six
861
00:42:25.790 --> 00:42:28.950
is because we talked about this on the hard way back in the day
862
00:42:29.790 --> 00:42:32.510
was the more we talked about it, the more I believed
863
00:42:32.510 --> 00:42:35.190
the beginning of the end of the golden era
864
00:42:35.190 --> 00:42:37.150
was when the ultimate warrior beat Hogan.
865
00:42:37.490 --> 00:42:39.890
Absolutely. Because he wasn't up to it.
866
00:42:40.210 --> 00:42:41.570
He wasn't up to it.
867
00:42:41.710 --> 00:42:45.290
And he and the babyface versus babyface dynamic
868
00:42:45.830 --> 00:42:48.110
never draws the way people think it will.
869
00:42:48.310 --> 00:42:50.430
It just never does. And
870
00:42:52.070 --> 00:42:55.170
and but they were out of top heels and they screwed up, Mr.
871
00:42:55.250 --> 00:42:57.650
Perfect. They screwed up a bunch of guys.
872
00:42:57.910 --> 00:43:00.010
They screwed up Ted DiBiase quite on it.
873
00:43:00.550 --> 00:43:03.130
And so they didn't have anybody credible for the warrior.
874
00:43:03.230 --> 00:43:06.510
He was given these kind of lackluster opponents during his run.
875
00:43:06.670 --> 00:43:08.550
And he couldn't wrestle where the hell is shit.
876
00:43:08.970 --> 00:43:10.810
He's not as a wrestler.
877
00:43:10.890 --> 00:43:14.730
And so he can't match his opponent's styles.
878
00:43:14.730 --> 00:43:16.630
He can't mix it up.
879
00:43:16.790 --> 00:43:20.670
Well, in his crazy, his crazy wild promos and everything
880
00:43:20.670 --> 00:43:24.390
that drew you to the warrior are really great in small doses.
881
00:43:24.390 --> 00:43:29.050
But once you start overexposing that guy, it just gets old, you know.
882
00:43:30.070 --> 00:43:32.610
So do you think this is the question, then?
883
00:43:32.610 --> 00:43:36.410
Do you think that the fad dies out
884
00:43:36.410 --> 00:43:38.690
at that time the same as it did normally?
885
00:43:38.690 --> 00:43:41.130
Or do you think that Hogan and Savage carries it
886
00:43:41.130 --> 00:43:43.030
and it lasts a little bit longer?
887
00:43:43.030 --> 00:43:46.530
Because now you have Hogan, Savage, Flair, and then all these people
888
00:43:46.530 --> 00:43:49.950
coming in, the fad maybe doesn't die out so quick.
889
00:43:50.350 --> 00:43:52.010
I think it doesn't die out so quick.
890
00:43:52.210 --> 00:43:56.150
But that's solely to the benefit, really, of WWF and nobody else.
891
00:43:56.250 --> 00:43:57.950
And I think that
892
00:43:57.950 --> 00:44:00.710
you get that entrenched, oligarchic
893
00:44:01.830 --> 00:44:04.970
corporate fascism thing a little earlier.
894
00:44:05.710 --> 00:44:09.550
Well, and then, yeah, there's I mean, to be.
895
00:44:10.470 --> 00:44:12.210
I don't know, hyperbolic, I guess.
896
00:44:12.210 --> 00:44:13.610
Pro wrestling dies.
897
00:44:14.010 --> 00:44:16.890
And sports entertainment is the only thing.
898
00:44:16.930 --> 00:44:21.630
But instead of that happening in the early 2000s, it happens in 1988.
899
00:44:22.790 --> 00:44:25.150
Right. Yeah. Instead of 2001.
900
00:44:25.530 --> 00:44:27.110
Right. That's your universe.
901
00:44:27.210 --> 00:44:28.230
There'd be no attitude era.
902
00:44:28.270 --> 00:44:30.270
No Austin, three, 16, King, the great one.
903
00:44:30.350 --> 00:44:31.570
Nope. Right. Nope.
904
00:44:31.910 --> 00:44:35.730
There were just wrestling itself becomes considered more of like,
905
00:44:35.850 --> 00:44:37.690
remember when the hula hoop was a big deal?
906
00:44:37.810 --> 00:44:41.570
You know, like that's what wrestling it goes the way of.
907
00:44:42.250 --> 00:44:43.670
Roller derby, basically.
908
00:44:43.690 --> 00:44:44.850
Yeah, it's still around.
909
00:44:45.270 --> 00:44:48.610
You know, it's the 80s, though he has a cartoon.
910
00:44:48.610 --> 00:44:49.650
He has a toy line.
911
00:44:50.010 --> 00:44:52.950
There's a chance it's, you know, G.I.
912
00:44:52.990 --> 00:44:54.350
Joe Ninja Turtles, He-Man.
913
00:44:54.550 --> 00:44:56.850
Maybe it gets revived as a nostalgic thing.
914
00:44:57.410 --> 00:44:59.390
But yeah, I don't.
915
00:44:59.530 --> 00:45:02.210
You never listen to the Sergeant Slaughter storyline,
916
00:45:02.330 --> 00:45:05.410
which got so much damage that did to the brand.
917
00:45:05.730 --> 00:45:07.790
And he also has.
918
00:45:09.350 --> 00:45:12.070
You still have the steroid scandal coming, you know,
919
00:45:12.070 --> 00:45:14.530
and that doesn't change because of this.
920
00:45:14.530 --> 00:45:17.690
Right. You know, maybe he puts the belt on guys like Bret and Perfect
921
00:45:17.690 --> 00:45:19.970
and and and Rick Flair sooner.
922
00:45:20.870 --> 00:45:25.490
But maybe the outcome of this, the trial changes.
923
00:45:26.290 --> 00:45:28.790
But you also have.
924
00:45:29.130 --> 00:45:31.910
Vince going eventually whole hog with
925
00:45:32.910 --> 00:45:37.390
garbage men and sports stars, hockey guys,
926
00:45:37.570 --> 00:45:39.770
you know, roosters, et cetera, et cetera,
927
00:45:39.770 --> 00:45:42.670
with nothing else as a buffer to that.
928
00:45:42.730 --> 00:45:47.390
You don't have the real wrestling or whatever you want to call it
929
00:45:47.390 --> 00:45:50.630
of the NWA or the AWA, Verne Gagne's vision.
930
00:45:51.010 --> 00:45:55.390
You only have this one vision of professional wrestling, and it's
931
00:45:56.510 --> 00:46:00.070
not the one that I would really want, I guess.
932
00:46:00.290 --> 00:46:01.730
And it happens in 88.
933
00:46:02.970 --> 00:46:05.290
Right. So there's that.
934
00:46:06.590 --> 00:46:09.210
Antoine says, I think one thing happens,
935
00:46:09.210 --> 00:46:12.110
you mentioned ECW still happens, but it becomes the number two.
936
00:46:12.310 --> 00:46:13.930
So who on earth comes there?
937
00:46:14.530 --> 00:46:16.870
Well, I mean, is it the same style?
938
00:46:16.870 --> 00:46:20.530
I think is the question, because ECW
939
00:46:20.530 --> 00:46:22.450
was descended from Tri State Wrestling,
940
00:46:22.910 --> 00:46:25.030
which was run by a dude named Joel Goodhart.
941
00:46:25.710 --> 00:46:29.330
But the problem with ECW with Tri State is that he booked
942
00:46:29.330 --> 00:46:32.150
every match is a hardcore match, every match on the card.
943
00:46:32.610 --> 00:46:36.070
Like he had no idea how to like build anything.
944
00:46:36.110 --> 00:46:38.870
So he'd sign all these super expensive people to come.
945
00:46:38.870 --> 00:46:40.530
The shows would draw really well.
946
00:46:40.630 --> 00:46:41.730
He'd have the Sheik there.
947
00:46:41.910 --> 00:46:43.070
You'd have Abdullah there.
948
00:46:43.170 --> 00:46:44.490
You'd have Terry Funk there.
949
00:46:44.690 --> 00:46:45.950
You'd have Eddie Gilbert there.
950
00:46:46.230 --> 00:46:47.310
They draw really well.
951
00:46:47.310 --> 00:46:50.210
But because the talent was so expensive, they wouldn't make any money.
952
00:46:50.770 --> 00:46:55.930
And so Todd Gordon basically took the audience that came to see Tri State
953
00:46:56.510 --> 00:47:00.510
and the people from that promotion who were doing all the back end stuff said,
954
00:47:00.650 --> 00:47:03.850
Todd, would you be willing to like fund the bare bones
955
00:47:03.850 --> 00:47:05.970
of something just so we can do this?
956
00:47:05.970 --> 00:47:07.350
We don't care if we make any money.
957
00:47:08.150 --> 00:47:11.910
And Todd just basically decided, hey, I'm not going to bring in all the big names.
958
00:47:12.350 --> 00:47:15.230
I'm going to bring in maybe one or two, you know, per show.
959
00:47:15.410 --> 00:47:16.810
Right. We get sustainable.
960
00:47:16.810 --> 00:47:20.010
And that's how ECW starts. So.
961
00:47:20.910 --> 00:47:26.330
Maybe ECW still happens, but does it happen in 1989,
962
00:47:26.330 --> 00:47:31.010
maybe because Tri State starts in 1990, it's not like that far removed.
963
00:47:31.030 --> 00:47:32.050
No, not really.
964
00:47:32.890 --> 00:47:36.370
That Philly, that South Philly hardcore mentality is already there.
965
00:47:36.370 --> 00:47:39.030
You know, so who's to say?
966
00:47:39.250 --> 00:47:40.390
But and who goes there?
967
00:47:40.410 --> 00:47:44.230
I'm pretty sure Hayman, Eddie Gilbert, you know,
968
00:47:45.190 --> 00:47:46.050
guys who went there.
969
00:47:46.050 --> 00:47:49.530
And then there's also the other thing that we haven't considered is
970
00:47:49.530 --> 00:47:52.070
who else in WWF is just worth nothing.
971
00:47:52.770 --> 00:47:54.790
And leaves happens. Yeah.
972
00:47:54.830 --> 00:47:56.990
I mean, do you need Dino Bravo?
973
00:47:58.010 --> 00:47:59.850
Do you need Brutus Beefcake?
974
00:47:59.990 --> 00:48:02.390
He probably has a job. Well, yeah, he's got a job because of Hogan.
975
00:48:02.770 --> 00:48:05.490
But a lot of those guys are gone and they're out
976
00:48:05.490 --> 00:48:08.370
kind of seeding the territories again. Yep.
977
00:48:08.830 --> 00:48:12.870
Yeah, you got guys like Ken Patera, who is like signs,
978
00:48:13.030 --> 00:48:15.350
autographs and wrestles on your show. Right.
979
00:48:15.870 --> 00:48:17.870
At what point does Herb Abrams start the UW?
980
00:48:18.030 --> 00:48:20.730
Oh, no, he's already done with the UWF at this point, isn't he?
981
00:48:20.830 --> 00:48:22.330
So he's no.
982
00:48:22.530 --> 00:48:26.930
So Herb Abrams doesn't start his UWF until the mid 90s, like 93.
983
00:48:27.470 --> 00:48:31.050
So, OK, so there's your there's your big money
984
00:48:31.050 --> 00:48:32.470
mark or whatever you want to call him.
985
00:48:32.550 --> 00:48:34.950
You know, there's your guy who's got the cash.
986
00:48:34.950 --> 00:48:36.910
The only thing bigger than a money
987
00:48:36.910 --> 00:48:39.950
mark that he was a mark for was cocaine, Cacanya.
988
00:48:41.350 --> 00:48:42.670
But I mean, like, yeah.
989
00:48:42.670 --> 00:48:44.870
So let's say a dude like that gets a hold of,
990
00:48:45.390 --> 00:48:48.110
you know, Eddie Gilbert and shit like that or Heyman or whoever.
991
00:48:49.170 --> 00:48:51.010
Yeah, there's there's different possibilities.
992
00:48:51.050 --> 00:48:53.530
And we haven't even mentioned Jerry Jarrett either.
993
00:48:53.910 --> 00:48:55.790
I don't know what Jerry Jarrett's doing in 1988.
994
00:48:56.590 --> 00:48:58.690
I mean, the USWA.
995
00:48:59.870 --> 00:49:01.850
Last until like 1998,
996
00:49:02.490 --> 00:49:08.810
like it was the last territory to go, you know, go on.
997
00:49:08.850 --> 00:49:10.050
I'm sorry. I'm just messaged.
998
00:49:10.050 --> 00:49:12.250
I would make a Duke the Dumpster
999
00:49:12.250 --> 00:49:14.790
Drossie joke because I always have.
1000
00:49:14.870 --> 00:49:17.550
And then he got arrested recently for something terrible.
1001
00:49:17.590 --> 00:49:20.050
And I can't anymore. Oh.
1002
00:49:21.250 --> 00:49:23.390
So Antoine, wrestling doesn't die as a whole.
1003
00:49:23.450 --> 00:49:24.570
It dies in the West. Yeah.
1004
00:49:24.930 --> 00:49:27.650
I think it has a period very similar to Britain.
1005
00:49:28.110 --> 00:49:30.470
You know, what happened when World of Sport disappeared,
1006
00:49:31.370 --> 00:49:35.570
where they went years without major wrestling promotion,
1007
00:49:35.650 --> 00:49:37.170
having a big TV deal.
1008
00:49:38.390 --> 00:49:41.210
They still had it, but they were doing like holiday camps
1009
00:49:41.210 --> 00:49:44.510
and doing, you know, Danielson's like doing the holiday camps
1010
00:49:44.510 --> 00:49:47.750
over there in the late or in the early 2000s.
1011
00:49:47.750 --> 00:49:50.650
You know, because British Britain didn't have a wrestling scene
1012
00:49:50.650 --> 00:49:53.610
that was of any acclaim for like 15 years.
1013
00:49:56.300 --> 00:49:58.800
So here's a question from Antoine. Thank you.
1014
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:02.300
There is one person there who would be affected that I want to know
1015
00:50:02.300 --> 00:50:04.000
what happens, Sean Michaels.
1016
00:50:05.160 --> 00:50:06.660
When do the Rockers break up?
1017
00:50:08.600 --> 00:50:09.640
Ninety one.
1018
00:50:10.220 --> 00:50:12.560
When do they show up in 88?
1019
00:50:13.180 --> 00:50:14.680
So they're brand new.
1020
00:50:15.040 --> 00:50:17.220
So, I mean, to me, that.
1021
00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:20.940
That stays the same up until they split.
1022
00:50:21.500 --> 00:50:24.300
I know exactly what I would do because
1023
00:50:24.980 --> 00:50:27.660
Sean and Marty weren't going to get along forever, right?
1024
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:29.480
And Sean was going to be Sean.
1025
00:50:30.080 --> 00:50:32.800
Happens the exact same way it did. Sure.
1026
00:50:33.640 --> 00:50:35.980
But you already have Rick Flair's replacement
1027
00:50:37.300 --> 00:50:39.320
way before. Yeah.
1028
00:50:39.620 --> 00:50:40.560
Sure. Sean Michaels.
1029
00:50:41.420 --> 00:50:44.260
He ends up feuding with Rick Flair.
1030
00:50:44.500 --> 00:50:46.960
Sure. Flair turns baby face.
1031
00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:49.890
Michaels turns the horseman against him.
1032
00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:53.280
Sure. New chapter begins.
1033
00:50:53.660 --> 00:50:55.340
Arne Anderson is like his mentor.
1034
00:50:55.680 --> 00:50:58.380
And this is all off the top of your head, which I do have to say,
1035
00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:01.380
I'm not going to call you a genius, but I am impressed.
1036
00:51:02.020 --> 00:51:05.320
Yeah. No, I think I think the horsemen turn on Flair.
1037
00:51:05.820 --> 00:51:08.740
He becomes the old baby face guy who loses all the time.
1038
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:12.140
And Michaels becomes the next.
1039
00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:15.100
Well, you have with the horsemen, you have this whole new avenue.
1040
00:51:15.220 --> 00:51:16.340
Because, like, say, with the Heenan family,
1041
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:19.420
it's like Heenan's bringing people in to try to get rid of Hogan. Right.
1042
00:51:19.620 --> 00:51:22.720
And with the horsemen, it's like you have this whole different setup
1043
00:51:22.720 --> 00:51:26.580
for who you can insert in, pull out,
1044
00:51:26.580 --> 00:51:29.800
you know, who's the new guy that you want to make the monster heal.
1045
00:51:32.570 --> 00:51:35.050
Yeah, there's the it changes the whole dynamic.
1046
00:51:35.310 --> 00:51:37.430
I think we just hit the same button. Yeah. Hot take.
1047
00:51:38.610 --> 00:51:40.450
An 88 steamboat leaves WWF.
1048
00:51:40.530 --> 00:51:43.870
I think steamboat go to Flair in 88 WWF for 21 people.
1049
00:51:44.050 --> 00:51:47.150
Dynamite Kid or Blue Blazer, but an 89 that spot goes to Mr. Perfect.
1050
00:51:48.250 --> 00:51:50.430
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that we kind of in the horsemen.
1051
00:51:50.490 --> 00:51:51.290
Is that what you mean?
1052
00:51:52.830 --> 00:51:53.750
Because, yeah, we did.
1053
00:51:53.950 --> 00:51:57.230
Or it just becomes his like kind of like masterwork in ring
1054
00:51:57.230 --> 00:51:58.650
you know. Sure.
1055
00:51:58.910 --> 00:52:03.890
Yeah, I could I could see a Henig in Flair Feud somewhere in 89
1056
00:52:03.890 --> 00:52:06.510
after a year of Henig maybe being the fourth horseman.
1057
00:52:06.850 --> 00:52:10.450
Well, and I can see all these guys also headlining in.
1058
00:52:10.650 --> 00:52:14.570
And if there are other promotions that are that are on the rise.
1059
00:52:15.590 --> 00:52:18.570
Yeah, maybe Henning doesn't have a place in WWF and he goes over there.
1060
00:52:18.690 --> 00:52:22.390
Maybe Shawn Michaels sees the WWF as being too overcrowded
1061
00:52:22.390 --> 00:52:25.350
and doesn't see room at the top and he goes to somewhere else.
1062
00:52:25.790 --> 00:52:27.150
Well, and that's kind of the thing.
1063
00:52:27.150 --> 00:52:31.390
I think Vince also continues this cycle of bringing people in for runs
1064
00:52:31.390 --> 00:52:32.810
and then cycling them out
1065
00:52:33.390 --> 00:52:37.290
because there's so many others at his disposal, you know,
1066
00:52:37.850 --> 00:52:41.730
he doesn't have to have long term heels for years and years
1067
00:52:41.730 --> 00:52:44.950
and years at a time unless it's like a Rick Flair or somebody
1068
00:52:44.950 --> 00:52:46.510
at that elite level.
1069
00:52:46.790 --> 00:52:49.590
Roddy Piper is probably never a baby face.
1070
00:52:49.610 --> 00:52:53.330
He's probably well, people were going to make Piper a baby
1071
00:52:53.330 --> 00:52:55.290
baby face, no matter what, you know what I mean?
1072
00:52:55.290 --> 00:52:58.570
But, yeah, keep going, keep going.
1073
00:53:00.250 --> 00:53:02.470
Piper says it flares in in 1988.
1074
00:53:02.570 --> 00:53:05.450
Flair does number three at 89 Royal Rumble and wins three years
1075
00:53:05.450 --> 00:53:07.590
before 92 Royal Rumble. Very possible.
1076
00:53:08.190 --> 00:53:10.370
And that's another thing is.
1077
00:53:10.710 --> 00:53:13.610
You don't eat maybe in this scenario,
1078
00:53:13.610 --> 00:53:16.270
you never have a situation where the title is vacated
1079
00:53:16.270 --> 00:53:20.490
and the rumble is for the title after the rumble was for the title,
1080
00:53:20.510 --> 00:53:23.190
after Flair won it every year since then.
1081
00:53:23.190 --> 00:53:25.650
The Royal Rumble has been for a shot
1082
00:53:25.650 --> 00:53:27.950
at the at the world title at WrestleMania, right?
1083
00:53:28.150 --> 00:53:29.750
Maybe that never happens.
1084
00:53:29.910 --> 00:53:32.190
And that whole episode we did two weeks ago
1085
00:53:32.190 --> 00:53:33.610
doesn't make make any sense.
1086
00:53:33.630 --> 00:53:34.790
It doesn't matter anymore.
1087
00:53:35.050 --> 00:53:37.730
Well, or or it just doesn't happen till later.
1088
00:53:37.830 --> 00:53:40.950
You know, I mean, it at least is given a few more years
1089
00:53:40.950 --> 00:53:45.430
to not start homogenizing the entire approach to
1090
00:53:46.010 --> 00:53:48.050
Blair Line makes a great point.
1091
00:53:48.130 --> 00:53:50.610
And I would like you to elaborate a little bit on this, Joe,
1092
00:53:50.610 --> 00:53:52.170
if you could, hopefully in this scenario,
1093
00:53:52.170 --> 00:53:55.150
the U.S. doesn't have to deal with tribute shows like we did.
1094
00:53:55.450 --> 00:53:57.330
What do you mean by tribute shows exactly?
1095
00:53:58.270 --> 00:54:01.110
I think I might know, but I want to I want to make sure
1096
00:54:01.110 --> 00:54:02.890
I understand properly.
1097
00:54:04.850 --> 00:54:06.870
Skewered Universe recognizing game over here.
1098
00:54:06.930 --> 00:54:08.290
It's pretty interesting having Michaels
1099
00:54:08.290 --> 00:54:09.510
head up the horseman.
1100
00:54:09.810 --> 00:54:11.950
And then eventually it sounds like something he'd say.
1101
00:54:12.210 --> 00:54:14.830
A new generation of horsemen, you know, like it's sure.
1102
00:54:15.310 --> 00:54:17.710
It's not like he's going to run around with Arn and Tolley forever.
1103
00:54:17.950 --> 00:54:19.510
Yeah, he could have a new generation of horsemen.
1104
00:54:19.510 --> 00:54:24.230
It could be Razor, Ramon, Diesel, Shawn Michaels.
1105
00:54:25.490 --> 00:54:28.430
Yeah, triple a arch, right?
1106
00:54:28.990 --> 00:54:29.810
You know. Oh, sorry.
1107
00:54:29.890 --> 00:54:31.750
I just hit this button on this light and all of a sudden
1108
00:54:31.750 --> 00:54:33.870
I'm super illuminated now.
1109
00:54:33.990 --> 00:54:38.350
You looked so moody earlier and now it's better.
1110
00:54:38.410 --> 00:54:39.250
I don't know what happened.
1111
00:54:39.630 --> 00:54:40.870
I don't know. I don't know.
1112
00:54:40.890 --> 00:54:42.130
It's all fuzzy now.
1113
00:54:42.210 --> 00:54:43.230
You'll divide, bro.
1114
00:54:43.390 --> 00:54:44.310
Whatever. Sorry.
1115
00:54:44.510 --> 00:54:47.330
I was going for like a kind of a sensual vibe.
1116
00:54:47.370 --> 00:54:48.310
How's that? Is that better?
1117
00:54:48.950 --> 00:54:50.590
No, I'm sorry.
1118
00:54:50.710 --> 00:54:53.130
Once one says, yeah, I agree with Professor Piper
1119
00:54:53.130 --> 00:54:55.150
was going to be a babyface, but maybe that legendary
1120
00:54:55.150 --> 00:54:56.730
IC title doesn't happen.
1121
00:54:57.130 --> 00:54:57.810
It's the world title.
1122
00:54:58.090 --> 00:55:01.510
So let's get into that. So.
1123
00:55:01.770 --> 00:55:07.110
This ends if Flair goes to WWF,
1124
00:55:07.730 --> 00:55:11.650
you have to end the year long title reigns that are always.
1125
00:55:11.730 --> 00:55:12.230
Oh, yeah.
1126
00:55:12.590 --> 00:55:15.290
Just like AEW is doing right now,
1127
00:55:16.230 --> 00:55:19.090
where guys are holding the belt for a month or three months
1128
00:55:19.090 --> 00:55:22.410
or six, you know, but it's not a year like it was. Right.
1129
00:55:22.490 --> 00:55:24.470
And they're on their way out at this point anyway.
1130
00:55:24.830 --> 00:55:26.030
By 88, you know.
1131
00:55:26.090 --> 00:55:29.650
Yeah, you just can't do it like Hogan can't be champion
1132
00:55:29.650 --> 00:55:30.530
for a year.
1133
00:55:30.730 --> 00:55:32.390
Savage champion for a year.
1134
00:55:32.850 --> 00:55:37.090
You know, so you have the belt moving around a lot more sooner.
1135
00:55:37.410 --> 00:55:40.430
And I think you build up more guys
1136
00:55:40.430 --> 00:55:43.730
who can carry the fucking company.
1137
00:55:43.730 --> 00:55:47.910
When Hogan eventually really Peters out.
1138
00:55:48.470 --> 00:55:50.750
Yeah. So maybe then we end up with a WWF
1139
00:55:50.750 --> 00:55:54.010
that isn't based around one big top guy
1140
00:55:54.010 --> 00:55:55.350
and then a bunch of guys trickling.
1141
00:55:55.350 --> 00:55:59.490
Maybe it's the way we see AEW now or every other promotion
1142
00:55:59.490 --> 00:56:02.850
in the entire world where guys kind of come in and out
1143
00:56:02.850 --> 00:56:05.350
of that top spot, you know, and a lot of different guys
1144
00:56:05.350 --> 00:56:06.550
get a chance.
1145
00:56:06.550 --> 00:56:09.450
And you don't have that overkill where you're,
1146
00:56:09.450 --> 00:56:11.730
you know, really, Hogan is replication of Bruno.
1147
00:56:11.730 --> 00:56:13.930
You know, I mean, Vince McMahon,
1148
00:56:13.930 --> 00:56:15.790
senior is the guy who made that template.
1149
00:56:17.430 --> 00:56:20.410
So blurry line says tribute shows were when the UK scene
1150
00:56:20.410 --> 00:56:21.650
had absolutely no star.
1151
00:56:21.690 --> 00:56:24.230
So wrestlers would run bootleg WWF shows
1152
00:56:24.230 --> 00:56:27.190
with wrestlers posing as WWF wrestlers.
1153
00:56:27.270 --> 00:56:30.030
Oh, yeah, that's what I thought you meant. So.
1154
00:56:31.010 --> 00:56:32.830
Yeah, that's a terrible idea.
1155
00:56:33.070 --> 00:56:36.130
Oh, is that where you get guys like Cold Stone,
1156
00:56:36.250 --> 00:56:37.810
Austin Stevens? Yes, yes.
1157
00:56:38.070 --> 00:56:41.070
You get you get guys doing impressions of famous gimmicks.
1158
00:56:41.070 --> 00:56:41.790
Yes.
1159
00:56:42.090 --> 00:56:45.310
Skewered Universe says Four Horsemen Wolf Pack would be
1160
00:56:46.070 --> 00:56:49.370
the thing. But yeah, I mean, how, you know.
1161
00:56:49.450 --> 00:56:51.230
Oh, my God. Right.
1162
00:56:51.750 --> 00:56:55.330
So, yeah. So basically, wrestling is totally changed
1163
00:56:55.330 --> 00:56:58.510
by this one thing. Sure.
1164
00:56:59.810 --> 00:57:03.330
One move changes and it reshuffles the entire deck,
1165
00:57:03.390 --> 00:57:06.570
which I think speaks to the importance of both Ted Turner.
1166
00:57:07.810 --> 00:57:08.450
Absolutely.
1167
00:57:08.450 --> 00:57:12.910
Rick Flair, really, you know, at the time.
1168
00:57:13.810 --> 00:57:16.330
And you get the Hogan Flair feud
1169
00:57:16.330 --> 00:57:19.910
in the middle of their primes instead of years after.
1170
00:57:20.030 --> 00:57:23.130
And you actually, yeah, you actually get a proper feud
1171
00:57:23.130 --> 00:57:26.310
because by the time it happened in WCW after that,
1172
00:57:26.430 --> 00:57:28.410
I've got I've got no purpose for that.
1173
00:57:28.410 --> 00:57:29.090
No. It's terrible.
1174
00:57:29.570 --> 00:57:32.990
I mean, that's that doesn't even it almost doesn't even count.
1175
00:57:32.990 --> 00:57:33.990
You know.
1176
00:57:35.670 --> 00:57:37.590
Here, it says we need to do an episode of
1177
00:57:37.590 --> 00:57:39.810
into the rest of the verse of what if Timeless Tony Storm
1178
00:57:39.810 --> 00:57:43.470
joins WWE in a big signing like Cody Rhodes in twenty twenty two?
1179
00:57:44.330 --> 00:57:48.550
Maybe it's the thing about that is wasn't when was she in?
1180
00:57:49.470 --> 00:57:50.770
When was she in WWE?
1181
00:57:51.370 --> 00:57:54.630
She left in twenty twenty two or twenty twenty one.
1182
00:57:54.630 --> 00:57:55.830
I think she got released. Yeah.
1183
00:57:55.870 --> 00:57:57.910
OK. Like, oh, let out of her contract.
1184
00:57:58.290 --> 00:58:00.970
I think the problem, though, is she would never be able to do
1185
00:58:00.970 --> 00:58:02.470
what she does in WWE.
1186
00:58:02.830 --> 00:58:06.530
It just wouldn't happen. One thing, in my opinion.
1187
00:58:09.310 --> 00:58:10.330
Blurring line says we're all muted.
1188
00:58:10.330 --> 00:58:12.010
Are we? Can you hear us?
1189
00:58:12.430 --> 00:58:14.910
I can hear me. I can hear you.
1190
00:58:15.050 --> 00:58:16.550
No. Yeah, yeah.
1191
00:58:16.850 --> 00:58:19.150
Maybe you've got the mute button on Blurring Line.
1192
00:58:19.370 --> 00:58:20.570
You're talking about that.
1193
00:58:20.570 --> 00:58:23.990
Did you mute us? Fucking Christ. Jesus Christ.
1194
00:58:24.370 --> 00:58:27.350
What if the WWF felt into dire straits and Turner
1195
00:58:27.350 --> 00:58:30.470
purchased WWF from Vince like bought it out completely?
1196
00:58:30.470 --> 00:58:34.390
I mean, how realistic scenario to envision given this whole thing
1197
00:58:34.390 --> 00:58:36.450
at some point in the late 90s.
1198
00:58:36.570 --> 00:58:38.130
Vince wants to get the fuck out of wrestling.
1199
00:58:39.510 --> 00:58:42.170
Well, yeah. Or he needs the backing.
1200
00:58:43.630 --> 00:58:45.250
And man, well, whatever.
1201
00:58:45.830 --> 00:58:47.150
So there's one more.
1202
00:58:48.150 --> 00:58:50.530
There's another option that I think is worth exploring.
1203
00:58:51.830 --> 00:58:55.110
If we've exhausted these options and I don't know if we have.
1204
00:58:56.610 --> 00:58:57.790
It's Vince McMahon.
1205
00:58:57.790 --> 00:58:59.510
It's 1988.
1206
00:58:59.730 --> 00:59:02.330
And I know it's a little bit early on the timeline.
1207
00:59:03.670 --> 00:59:06.010
But Blade, I know I'm annoying the shit out of you with this one.
1208
00:59:06.530 --> 00:59:08.130
But I got to call this the polka dot road.
1209
00:59:08.470 --> 00:59:11.170
We might have to take a walk down the polka dot road because.
1210
00:59:11.630 --> 00:59:12.630
Polka dot road, baby.
1211
00:59:12.710 --> 00:59:14.630
I think you know what the polka dot road is, baby.
1212
00:59:14.630 --> 00:59:17.430
And I think you know who walked that road and who walked that line.
1213
00:59:17.630 --> 00:59:19.190
And that's the American dream, Dusty Rhodes.
1214
00:59:19.310 --> 00:59:21.990
And you took a dude that was the baddest
1215
00:59:23.130 --> 00:59:27.150
American dream, people's champ, the hardest working man.
1216
00:59:27.150 --> 00:59:31.010
And you turned him into a dude who wore fucking polka dots and danced.
1217
00:59:31.270 --> 00:59:32.810
And he still managed to get it over.
1218
00:59:32.990 --> 00:59:37.190
But in a world of red roosters, gobbledygookers,
1219
00:59:38.030 --> 00:59:39.590
Dukes the Dumpster Drossies.
1220
00:59:40.970 --> 00:59:44.690
There's a whole lot of bad paths that this could have taken.
1221
00:59:45.110 --> 00:59:50.630
You could have had Arn and Tully and Barry dressed up like cowboys
1222
00:59:50.630 --> 00:59:53.850
wearing little cowboy hats, riding horses to the ring.
1223
00:59:53.850 --> 00:59:56.410
You could have had a whole terrible.
1224
00:59:57.030 --> 00:59:59.270
You could have had Zeus in the fucking horsemen.
1225
00:59:59.810 --> 01:00:01.370
If I need to say it again,
1226
01:00:01.670 --> 01:00:04.390
there's a lot of different paths that could have taken.
1227
01:00:04.950 --> 01:00:08.410
And I don't know if anybody has any guesses.
1228
01:00:08.670 --> 01:00:10.250
Throw them up in the chat, I guess.
1229
01:00:10.810 --> 01:00:12.630
I have a question for the audience.
1230
01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:16.760
Who's better at this?
1231
01:00:17.160 --> 01:00:19.980
You got degree booking Zeus into the four horsemen.
1232
01:00:20.120 --> 01:00:22.700
You got me having Shawn Michaels overtake Rick Flair
1233
01:00:22.700 --> 01:00:27.070
and carry on the horsemen for decades.
1234
01:00:27.390 --> 01:00:28.250
Here's the thing, Blade.
1235
01:00:29.490 --> 01:00:33.170
In the world of professional wrestling, there's what we'd all love to happen.
1236
01:00:33.310 --> 01:00:36.350
There's our own fantasy booking, and I admire your fantasy booking.
1237
01:00:36.510 --> 01:00:38.190
It's the same thing I would have done
1238
01:00:38.190 --> 01:00:41.270
playing a wrestling video game when I was 13 years old.
1239
01:00:41.370 --> 01:00:45.450
And then you also have the hardened, cynical world
1240
01:00:45.450 --> 01:00:50.490
of a 49 year old man who's lived through it all, who's seen it, who's seen
1241
01:00:51.170 --> 01:00:55.930
Bastion Booger and the headbangers dressed up like nuns.
1242
01:00:56.950 --> 01:00:57.890
I've seen meat.
1243
01:00:58.410 --> 01:01:00.130
You know who meat is.
1244
01:01:00.330 --> 01:01:01.990
You know what Sean Stasiak did.
1245
01:01:03.090 --> 01:01:04.410
What do you really?
1246
01:01:04.590 --> 01:01:07.990
It would be wonderful to think, oh, if Vince McMahon had the four horsemen,
1247
01:01:08.170 --> 01:01:10.510
he would he would have created the four horsemen in the WWF,
1248
01:01:10.570 --> 01:01:12.210
but he probably wouldn't have.
1249
01:01:12.510 --> 01:01:14.550
He probably would have made them into ice cream men.
1250
01:01:14.750 --> 01:01:17.970
You know, he would have done something super effing stupid.
1251
01:01:18.490 --> 01:01:22.410
Here it says Tony left WWE in 2021 because of Vince,
1252
01:01:22.410 --> 01:01:23.910
but Triple H was a big fan of Tony.
1253
01:01:23.950 --> 01:01:27.290
HHH was in bad condition in 2021 with the hard stuff.
1254
01:01:27.290 --> 01:01:31.170
I believe if Tony was in WWE in July 2022, things will be different.
1255
01:01:31.190 --> 01:01:34.510
So you're not saying after she becomes timeless in AEW,
1256
01:01:34.510 --> 01:01:39.910
she goes to WWE because timeless didn't start till 2023, I believe.
1257
01:01:40.230 --> 01:01:42.810
And then. I mean, I don't know.
1258
01:01:43.010 --> 01:01:45.290
I really don't know how they would have used her.
1259
01:01:45.470 --> 01:01:47.890
I look at how they use the women's roster currently.
1260
01:01:47.970 --> 01:01:50.570
Not to say AEW does a great job, but.
1261
01:01:52.070 --> 01:01:54.290
I just don't see her being given the platform
1262
01:01:54.290 --> 01:01:58.830
to really establish herself in the same way, based on how the leeway
1263
01:01:58.830 --> 01:02:02.790
to be that character, you know, she certainly would never become timeless.
1264
01:02:02.790 --> 01:02:04.690
Tony Storm in WWE, I just don't see.
1265
01:02:04.790 --> 01:02:06.170
I don't think so. No, no.
1266
01:02:06.570 --> 01:02:08.610
I don't think they would have allowed her that.
1267
01:02:09.070 --> 01:02:12.530
That's your universe also says, imagine a world with no billionaire
1268
01:02:12.530 --> 01:02:15.570
VKM, maybe that prevents so many gross things happening later on.
1269
01:02:16.990 --> 01:02:20.730
Could be, I'm pretty sure he was pretty fucking nasty back then, too, though.
1270
01:02:20.930 --> 01:02:22.130
Oh, I think he was pretty terrible.
1271
01:02:22.430 --> 01:02:24.130
But there would have been less of them.
1272
01:02:24.270 --> 01:02:26.290
He had the capacity to hurt less people.
1273
01:02:26.490 --> 01:02:29.950
Yes. Right. And the and he had the money to hurt less people, I guess.
1274
01:02:30.570 --> 01:02:33.190
Yes. Yeah, here you go, screwed universe.
1275
01:02:33.910 --> 01:02:37.150
If we never get WCW, we'd never have bitch off.
1276
01:02:37.450 --> 01:02:38.510
Yeah. Yeah.
1277
01:02:38.610 --> 01:02:42.350
I mean, Beric Bischoff might just be a male model in Sears
1278
01:02:42.350 --> 01:02:45.550
catalog somewhere, you know, he'd be doing like.
1279
01:02:46.850 --> 01:02:48.350
Fucking LL Bean.
1280
01:02:48.710 --> 01:02:49.990
Fuck. Yeah, you know.
1281
01:02:50.090 --> 01:02:54.450
Well, I mean, you think about how many when you if you don't have WCW,
1282
01:02:54.470 --> 01:02:56.510
that's the thing we're sitting here thinking about all these
1283
01:02:56.510 --> 01:02:57.410
changes that could have made.
1284
01:02:57.490 --> 01:03:00.830
But if you don't have WCW, does Steve Austin have a platform?
1285
01:03:01.150 --> 01:03:02.770
Does Raven have a platform?
1286
01:03:03.070 --> 01:03:04.590
You know what I mean? Like.
1287
01:03:05.970 --> 01:03:09.330
She's in both WWE and WCW.
1288
01:03:09.790 --> 01:03:10.610
Right, right.
1289
01:03:11.010 --> 01:03:14.070
But if he doesn't have that, you know, maybe he doesn't make the.
1290
01:03:14.070 --> 01:03:16.410
I don't know how him and Heyman, how everything worked out.
1291
01:03:16.590 --> 01:03:20.510
But like, let's say he doesn't make that connection with Heyman and WCW
1292
01:03:20.510 --> 01:03:22.550
and it doesn't carry over to ECW.
1293
01:03:23.830 --> 01:03:24.590
What is your line?
1294
01:03:24.730 --> 01:03:27.150
That's where I was going to teach yourself karate VHS.
1295
01:03:29.150 --> 01:03:31.850
That's absolutely that's absolutely what he would do.
1296
01:03:32.430 --> 01:03:33.450
That's hilarious.
1297
01:03:35.810 --> 01:03:38.430
Yeah, so I don't know.
1298
01:03:38.630 --> 01:03:41.950
That's our trip into the wrestle versus the wrestlers, people.
1299
01:03:44.290 --> 01:03:47.150
There's a lot of doorways, there's a lot of little what ifs,
1300
01:03:47.150 --> 01:03:50.690
there's a lot of little times that if one thing had happened differently,
1301
01:03:52.370 --> 01:03:53.810
what's the snowball effect?
1302
01:03:53.830 --> 01:03:55.730
What's the ripple effect of the butterfly effect?
1303
01:03:55.770 --> 01:03:59.910
We'll definitely be revisiting this idea in future episodes.
1304
01:04:01.970 --> 01:04:05.470
Less than if you have an idea for the wrestle verse,
1305
01:04:05.610 --> 01:04:09.590
hit us up at pro wrestling forever pod at Gmail dot com
1306
01:04:09.590 --> 01:04:13.390
and let us know, give us that hypothetical situation that
1307
01:04:13.390 --> 01:04:17.230
you what what would the wrestling landscape look like if it happened?
1308
01:04:17.710 --> 01:04:22.670
And let us use our brilliant imaginations to try to figure it out.
1309
01:04:26.780 --> 01:04:28.460
All right, everybody, thank you all so much.
1310
01:04:28.660 --> 01:04:29.580
This has been a lot of fun.
1311
01:04:29.640 --> 01:04:31.240
I hope you had fun too.
1312
01:04:31.240 --> 01:04:34.360
We'll be back next Monday with books and we're going to watch.
1313
01:04:35.200 --> 01:04:39.420
We'll have watched SummerSlam 1988 and we will review it.
1314
01:04:39.420 --> 01:04:42.460
Join me this Friday with books to talk about
1315
01:04:43.100 --> 01:04:44.980
whatever happens this week on AEW.
1316
01:04:44.980 --> 01:04:46.900
That's right. Go then.
1317
01:04:47.100 --> 01:04:48.660
There are other worlds than these.
1318
01:04:49.860 --> 01:04:51.000
This is Pro Wrestling 4.